- Zero FAQs
Editors note: A word of caution is appropriate. Many of the threads in
the Nats Project message board tend to digress more than the threads on other
message boards. The reader is advised to check the other threads in the Nats
Project when looking for information about a specific topic such as paint
schemes or specific aircraft types.
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 7:15 a.m.
In Response To: I need decals (Greg Springer)
Thanx to Greg Springer, the "Iida Zero Mix" is enroute to those on
the Nats roster. I got mine yesterday, Domo Arigatogozaimas, Greg!
Please remember that it is the Zero mix seen on the crashes of select Zeros.
It is not J3 Hairyokushoku seen in the (General Board) 13 Sep 4:17PM/8:14PM and
14 Sep 10:06AM/2:02PM scans. NOR is it the dark grayish color seen on the Kaga
KATE scan (Nats Board) 28 Sep 4:58AM. NOR is it the I3 "Gray Poupon"
of the Shokaku KATE [below].
Oh, Rob, I brought this Shokaku KATE (not VAL) sample to the IPMS Nats. In
the fluorescent lights, the metamerism of this sample changes to a color similar
to olives, but in direct sun (as most are trying to model) it is the brownish
khaki FS33440 shown.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:46 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Aw shucks, my hat size just went up to 8! David is correct. The Iida Zero
color is lighter than the other four Zero artifacts I have examined. I am
working (slowly) on trying to make mixes to match them as well. From my
observations thus far Polyscale Concrete is well in the ball park for the color
range and I would recommend it to anyone straight from the bottle.
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
Posted By: joe taylor <jtaylor@bhfs.bellhowell.com>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:15 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix (Greg Springer)
Has anyone looked at the Floquil Concrete color? Obviously it is not an
acrylic but i do not think this should matter except to those who cannot
tolerate the fumes.
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
Posted By: Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:18 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
(joe taylor)
Polly Scale produces the acrylic version of concrete. From what I have read
in the various boards, it is a good match. Do not use Old Concrete - different
colour. I am currently building a Val and the colour looks good to me.
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
Posted By: joe taylor <jtaylor@bhfs.bellhowell.com>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:28 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix (Grant
Goodale)
Do you know if anyone ever compared the Pollyscale acrylic and the Floquil
enamel versions of Concrete?
Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
Posted By: Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:36 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
(joe taylor)
I do not know if anyone has done a colour comparison. I will try to spray a
sample chip, scan it and send it to you. If the scan does not turn out as a
colour-true match, I will send it to you by snail mail.
Re: metamerism of I3 *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 7:30 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Greg's Iida Zero mix
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Here is a scan of the Shokaku KATE sample color I3 when the color is shifted
[in this case: by the printer] and reveals how the I3 color changes [metamerism]
when under fluorescent lights, cloudy day, shade on the northern side of the
house,...
Note the color swatch for FS33440 is in the photo so you may do your own
twitching of the color compared to YOUR FS595 swatch.
This is NOT the "Iida Zero Mix" that Greg is sending; nor is it the
J3 "Hairyokusho" of the scans cited.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Greg Springer's super paint mix!
Posted By: Rob Graham <reishikisenguy@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 October 2000, at 8:40 p.m.
In Response To: I need decals (Greg Springer)
I now have a bottle of Greg's hairyokushoku mix, and (having seen Jim
Lansdale's relics and David Aiken's Val part at the Dallas Nats) can say it
looks RIGHT. Anyone who is a little skeptical should be cool with it. Anyone who
has seen nice relics should be convinced!
Great work, Greg! Thanks. IOU1.
PH Zero colors
Posted By: Mike Quan <MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Friday, 29 September 2000, at 6:41 p.m.
I am compiling a list of colors for the planes to be built for the
collection.
While there is still some discussion about Val and Kate colors, can we
(safely) agree that all Zeros were overall J3?
Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, 2 October 2000, at 6:32 a.m.
In Response To: PH Zero colors (Mike
Quan)
Azusa Ono "captured" this video scan of Akagi Zero in J3 "Hairyokushoku"
in the contemporary film MIDWAY by John Ford.
What is nice to know is that in 1942 the color of J3 was a real gray from a
short distance (with the subdued tint of green on closer inspection, per the
postings on the General Board: 13 Sep 4:17PM and 8:14PM on Zero; 14 Sep 10:06AM
and 8:40PM on VAL).
The chemical deterioration from interaction of J3 over I3 perhaps suggests a
"new" color to some.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: J3 vs relic scans *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 8:00 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
J3 "Hairyokushoku" as cited on the Aussie A6M2 drop tank [13 Sep
4:17PM; 8:14PM] and Akagi VAL 7 Dec 1941 crash [14 Sep 10:06 AM; 8:40PM] is NOT
the color cited in the various scans by Lansdale and company.
To define WHAT that color IS has been an ongoing almost three year debate on
this web site. An even longer debate in Japan where one faction suggests it is a
mix of J3 and I3, or the I3 is an undercoat to J3. The latter idea is supported
by select relics with a gray still existing on the surface (see below).
Whatever it is, it is NOT J3 "Hairyokushoku".
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: J3/Hairyokushoku On A6M3 Model 22
*PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 9:30 p.m.
In Response To: Re: J3 vs relic scans
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
I examined and sent the piece in your scan for an analysis to the Smithsonian
Institute's Conservation Analytical Laboratory (CAL)! Dr. Minoru KAWAMOTO, who
now owns this piece, sent the item to me for such analysis! I photographed it
and set it to CAL. You should be aware of the following:
1) This piece (from A6M3 Model 22) had been altered after recovery. The black
paint was re-applied onto the stencil remnants after it was found. The painting
was excellently rendered, except that the last (fourth line) was not painted
over and it was found to be on the actual relic (look closely at the lower right
corner).
2) What you see as "gray" was found to be oxidation of the original
paint. The area you see as "greenish khaki" (hairyokushoku) was the
result of this portion of the aircraft having been covered (protected) by a
field application of dark green (elements of which appear in the photo as dark
spots. This layer conserved the color beneath and prevented the oxidation and
was removed on cleaning by the person who found this relic after over thirty
years in the jungle!
BTW, the photo you copied and used in your posting was one I sent to you!
Thank you for your input, analysis, and for posting my original photo!
Re: Color Accuracy In Films
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 7:50 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
John CROXALL wrote me on the JN Aircraft Board:
"I have an idea concerning the Ford film of the Zero burning that I'd
like to run past you. I believe that part of the film depicted in that clip
(posted by David AIKEN on the Nats Project Board) is a fake in the sense that it
is not as it appears. That clip shows a gasoline type fire burning on the TOP of
the Hinomaru way past the gas tank portion of the wing of that Zero (if indeed
it was a Zero). It looks to me as if gasoline were poured over the sign of the
rising sun and then lit for dramatic purposes. Elswhere in that video of Midway
by Ford (I have it) you will see a hinomaru that appears to be painted on the
horizontal stabilizer of a Betty shown floating on the water at the shoreline to
again drive home the point that this was a Jap wreck! Now, if that really is a
Zero wing piece in that clip I still say that it is staged possibly with hole
punched in the hinomaru and gas poured through them to the structure below so
that when the gas is lit flames would appear to be coming from within that
dreaded hinomaru! Therefore, color comparisons to that video are at the very
least suspect.
Somebody needs to comment on that wing structure too - it looks an awful lot
like an AT-6 wing!
One more thing, Mr Ford has a history of staging things for dramatic effect -
such as his Pearl Harbor attack video that begins on a "fake" note
also - you know the Dauntless dive bombers with hinomarus painted on there wings
to appear as the Japanese dive bomber they weren't! Keep in mind the atmosphere
of the times when this film was made. I feel that that burning symbol of the
empire of Japan is just too pat, too cute, to be taken for gospel!" John
CROXALL (10/3/00 JNA Board, J-Aircraft.com)
John CROXALL is a good historian and has an avid interest in these matters.
He brings up valid concerns similar to those you have expressed regarding
Hollywood's depictions and director's expertise (to wit, the recently completed
Pearl Harbor flic ).
Is CROXALL correct that that FORD's Midway film is highly suspect of being
"doctored" and that we cannot trust the colors to be "dead
on" or "ring true" as rendered in his old films and copied in
videos?
Re: Contemporary Color Of "AKAGI" Zero At Midway
*PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 6:18 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Today I received the following commentary from Tom MATLOSZ on the JN Aircraft
Board:
"I do not at all agree with the colors as depicted in the scanned photo
of the burning Sand Island wreck as posted on the bulletin board. We all know
about affects of time on vintage color film.
I have a copy of the John Ford film and the fuselage color is much more like
the relic piece that I have. Video capture software programs can and do alter
color dramatically. Does anyone know where the master copy of the John Ford
Midway film is archived?
The bottom line from my vantage point is that the A6M2 relic from Eastern
Island in my posession is definitely not J3, it is I3." Tom MATLOSZ
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Ford film vs relics
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 4 October 2000, at 8:23 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary Color Of "AKAGI" Zero At Midway *PIC*
(James F.
Lansdale)
Color shift in film is often the case. Thus you MUST use a standard to assure
if or how much color shift is present. The standard in this case is the color
scan Azusa Ono titled "I3 at Midway". As that color matched the
samples of I3 in both Mr Lansdale and my collections, there is no color shift.
Thus the scan which Azusa Ono titled "J3 at Midway" IS the light gray
color...despite the flames suggested as 'Hollywood'.
Of course, I note that your sample is NOT the J3 "Hairyokushoku" as
shown in the 13 Sep 4:17PM, 8:44PM; 14 Sep 10:06AM or 8:40PM scans. These scans
show that straight J3 doesn't have the greenish-khaki color of your sample.
Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, 2 October 2000, at 9:13 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Here is Azusa Ono's video "capture" of I3 on the VAL in John Ford's
Midway film. It is quite compatable with the relics shown by both Mr Lansdale
and myself. Thus the CONTEMPORARY I3 color shown in John Ford's film RINGS TRUE
to relic collections of today.
...BUT the CONTEMPORARY "J3" Zero sample in John Ford's film does
NOT "ring true" with the samples given in the relics in select
collections of today, even of the same Midway Zero. These select collections
from today do NOT "ring true" with J3 samples on other aircraft, like
the Zero and VAL scans cited on the GENERAL BOARD 13 Sep 4:17PM; 8:44PM, and 14
Sep 10:06AM, 8:40PM. Thus there must be alternative reasons for the disparity
between these modern collections and the J3 color of 1941-2.
The chemical attack of the mineral components within the paint and the
undercoat paint is suggested as a cause of color changes. As a mineral collector
and a color analyst in an R&D laboratory, I was made aware of these chemical
attacks. Some colors are affected rapidly, others slowly.
The USN document -cited in full a few months ago- about the Iida Zero crash
site suggests that a color change occurred rapidly. The report stated:
"...greenish khaki color topside, nonspec grey bottom..." I3 matches
with the greenish khaki description; J3 with nonspec gray.
Katsushi Owaki said in March that Zeros had been painted J3 with an undercoat
of I3. This conforms with the above USN document of two colors on a plane which
we know had one uniform overall factory applied scheme, IF the J3 wore fast as
it seems in the Chitose Ku Zero photo on page 104 in the Hata/Izawa IJN Ace
book.
I do not propose that you choose, as suggested in the 2 Oct 5:25 PM posting,
between Mr Lansdale's relics, or with those of us using ALL evidence provided. I
only suggest that you keep an open mind to ALL the evidence as we continue to
search for the CONTEMPORARY colors.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 4:44 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Thank you for your analysis, YoKu Report No.0266 states rather clearly that
the J3 color was an experimental color developed along with other experimental
colors in December 1941. I am puzzled as to how J3 would have become applied to
PH aircraft?
I3 (although not labeled as such until later) had been in use as early as the
China Incident and the writer of YoKu Report No.0266 labeled this color "J3
(gray) toward ameiro."
Also (if you would like a copy, I would be pleased to provide you with same),
Bob MIKESH and I received a technical evaluation of the IIDA relic from the
Smithsonian Institution's Conservation Analytical Laboratory which stated in
their conclusion that the IIDA fragment's binder may have yellowed with time,
but that there had been no color shift in the pigment and the color was
substantially the same as the day it was collected. All the paint on the IIDA
relics are the same color, both from the lower flap area, fuselage, and fin. I
am also puzzled about the lower surfaces being "non spec grey" in 1942
and the upper surfaces "greenish khaki," when all the existing
fragments/relics from these surfaces are the same color of "greenish
khaki" today.
I will post the complete technical report in an up-coming research article.
I hope this helps your quest for the true contemporary colors of all the PH
aircraft and thank you for your contributions.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 4:19 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
I am returning to the Nimitz Museum on Friday the 13th armed with a 30X
binocular microscope. I shall check for the presence of an intermediate primer
coat on the Iida artifact and two Midway artifacts and post the results here.
All three artifact have a red base primer coat.
Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway
Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>
Date: Monday, 2 October 2000, at 11:42 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary I3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Thanks David!
I very much appreciate you sharing information with use here on the different
possibilities that are out there.
I now must go back and re-read most of the past postings to see if I have
missed anything. I *thought* I had the whole color thing down pretty well, but I
guess there are a few things I must have missed.
(Is anyone else confused at this point, or is it just me?)
PLEASE keep all of this super information coming!
Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Monday, 2 October 2000, at 5:25 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway
*PIC* (David_Aiken)
Your film clips are fantastic! You and ONO-san are to be congratulated on
these great photos illustrating the use of J3 at Midway! Sure does look like J3
to me and it perfectly matches your photo of the relic of the Val brought down
at Pearl Harbor.
I suppose there might have been two colors on these birds; those on the
actual relics in museums and other collections or those illustrated by
contemporary color photos or film. Therefore, everyone will have to choose the
one according to his own preferences (the photo/film version or the one on
relics extant).
Thank you, ONO-san and Katsushi OWAKI for your collective research and help
on reaching a definitive answer on these colors.
Jim Lansdale
P.S. This is what a piece from the same Zero (Nakajima built A6M2 model 21
s/n 646) shot down at Midway and filmed by John FORD looks like today (relic
sample provided by Tom MATLOSZ). See posting on the JN Aircraft Board.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Nakajima paint *PIC*
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 8:26 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Contemporary J3 @ Midway *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Mr Lansdale says the Matlosz scan is a Nakajima A6M2 serial 646. Thought you
might like to re-see another Nakajima A6M2 relic. What color GRAY is on this
scan?
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Nakajima paint
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 6:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Nakajima paint *PIC*
(David_Aiken)
Jim LONG and I have determined that the piece in your scan is from the lower
surface of the port
horizontal stabilizer (Nakajima Part No.6012, s/n 9919, Mass
of 10.9 kg) from a Nakajima built A6M2 model 21, main frame s/n 1907 (907th A6M2
model 21 built by Nakajima) constructed in the last week of April 1943.
The color may very well be J2 blue-gray (close to FS-36307) which is known to
have been used on the lower surfaces of late production Nakajima built A6M2s and
A6M5s. It is difficult to tell the color exactlly from a photograph and the
severe weathering effects. The part should be examined in a more exacting
forensic manner.
Re: Nakajima paint
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 7:06 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Nakajima paint (James F. Lansdale)
The kind of part was determined by Ryan T. when this was first posted several
months ago.
Re: Nakajima Paint Colors/Relics *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 October 2000, at 4:34 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Nakajima paint (David_Aiken)
Thank you David.
I must have missed that posting!
A belated thank you is owed to Ryan TOEWS and to Jim LONG who have worked so
long together to unravel the mystery of the Nakajima serial numbers and on the
BLAYD Corporation relics identification project.
Ryan has done an excellent job in keeping us posted!
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Nakajima paint
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000, at 9:54 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Nakajima paint *PIC*
(David_Aiken)
You posted a very heavily oxidized paint scheme from a relic which sat
exposed in the jungle for four decades or more from a Nakajima built A6M2 model
21's lower stabilizer (s/n 9919) built in April 1943, or ten months after the
battle of Midway! This scan illustrates what exposure to the elements may do to
hairyokushoku or any finish.
For the actual aircraft frame number you should consult either Ryan TOEWS or
Jim LONG for a number close to the actual mainframe s/n of this aircraft. Ryan,
incidently, has made an extensive study of the weathering effects of
hairyokushoku on these Nakajima A6M2 model 21s. Consult his research article in
the Research section of this site.
Thank you for the new s/n!
Re: PH Zero colors
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Saturday, 30 September 2000, at 5:56 p.m.
In Response To: PH Zero colors (Mike
Quan)
I have 10 bottles of the enamel 1/72nd scaled Iida/Hirano Zero mix ready to
ship to verified Zero builders on the list. So far, this is Ryan Toews, Tim
Hortman and Gary Benjamin. They may contact me via e-mail with a snail-mail
address to ship to. One bottle per builder, please.
Re: PH Zero Colors *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Friday, 29 September 2000, at 9:37 p.m.
In Response To: PH Zero colors (Mike
Quan)
Go to the research section.
A rose by any other name is still
hairyokushoku!
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: PH Zero Color is J3!
Posted By: Mike Quan <MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Monday, 2 October 2000, at 8:31 a.m.
In Response To: Re: PH Zero Colors *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Thanks to everybody for their responses, as well as Greg S. mixing the
paints.
Now if we can settle the Val 'gray' and the Kate 'gray base color'!
Which A6M?
Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>
Date: Sunday, 17 September 2000, at 9:29 a.m.
This may be a really dumb question, but I have to ask anyway.
Which Hasegawa A6M kit should we be using for the Pearl Harbor Project? The
kit I brought up from the basement is Kit AP-14 Mitsubishi A6M2b Type 21. I
picked this one because it has decals for Akagi on the sheet, but I got to
thinking it may not be the correct varient.
Any Thoughts?
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sunday, 17 September 2000, at 9:44 a.m.
In Response To: Which A6M? (Tim
Hortman)
The vast majority of type 21s at PH had the external mass balances on the
ailerons according to David Aiken. Also according to David the balances were
painted red. I had to settle for the type 11 kit but it is exactly the same
sprues as the 21. The folks at King's Hobby tell me the type 21 is OOP but I
presume most folks have a few on hand. Tail code decals may be a problem for
some carriers
The Hawkeye resin set for the type 52 cockpit is just superb and can be
modified to the type 21 cockpit with a little work. It fits my kit like a charm.
(See, I am already starting!)
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>
Date: Sunday, 17 September 2000, at 10:56 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Greg Springer)
Were there other example at PH other than the Type 21? Do you have any idea
which CV's had which models?
What do you have to do to the Hawkeye set to backdate to the Model 21?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm about ready to dig into mine. (I've got
the bench cleared off, anyway!)
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sunday, 17 September 2000, at 1:39 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Tim
Hortman)
All aircraft were Mitsubishi-built type 21s. Remove the crank from the
elevator trim wheel. Fill in the front instrument face on the console on the
left side of the cockpit. Remove the radio from the upper front corner of the
right side panel. There's more but I will send it to you via e-mail when I can
get it together in a few days.
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Mark Shannon <Shingend@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thursday, 5 October 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Greg Springer)
You don't mention that you have rebuilt much of that interior to include
things that can only be seen in a jewelers loupe before you close it. (Honestly,
the man builds interiors that you would swear could only be built by a 1/48th
scale workman!)
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thursday, 5 October 2000, at 3:03 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Mark Shannon)
OK. You've got me. Under cover of my job at the 'brewery' I have been raising
and training homunculi in the lab to make my cockpits for me. The next phase is
1/72nd scale riveters. Thanks for the kind words! Bob Davies is my idol.
Re: A6M mods to Hawkeye?
Posted By: Mike Quan <MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Monday, 18 September 2000, at 7:35 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Greg Springer)
How about posting those hawkeye mods to the message boards so everyone can
share yor research? Thanks.
Re: Which A6M?
Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>
Date: Sunday, 17 September 2000, at 5:14 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Which A6M? (Greg Springer)
Thanks for all of your help! I look forward to seeing your other
modifications. I found that I do have the Hawkeye set here also.
Pearl Harbor Zero Colors: IIDA Tail Code
*PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Friday, 20 October 2000, at 11:16 a.m.
See below for the new photo of the IIDA Zero tail colors on the Pearl Harbor
relics page by Greg SPRINGER.
He also found drops of blue paint from the command stripes. This analysis
will give us a true indication of the blue used on these carriers of the No.2
Koku Sentai.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Pearl Harbor Zero Colors: IIDA Tail Code
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Friday, 20 October 2000, at 4:13 p.m.
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Zero Colors: IIDA Tail Code *PIC* (James F.
Lansdale)
Here are some other details from my examination of the Iida artifact with a
binocular microscope.
Although there were only four tiny smudges and two drops of blue paint
visible on the lower areas of the artifact, it was sufficient to tell that the
shade was a dark blue. I would GUESS that FS 15050 is closest. I cannot claim
any kind of match because of the tiny size of the samples. The microscope has
two built-in incandescent light sources. Under this light the dark blue was more
towards 15050 than any other chip on the 595B fan deck which I placed on the
microscope stage.
The letters were outlined in black ink and filled in by brush with the red
paint. Near the top of the fragment of the 'I' the painter wiped away a smear of
red paint which got outside the border. Width of the stroke on the 'B' is 51 mm.
There is no intermediate coat of paint between the gray-green and the red
primer. The top coat is bound very tightly to the primer and where chipping has
occured, a portion the red primer pigment has been pulled away from the metal.
I hope you all find this of some interest.
Re: Pearl Harbor Zero Colors: IIDA Tail Code
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Friday, 20 October 2000, at 1:39 p.m.
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Zero Colors: IIDA Tail Code *PIC* (James F.
Lansdale)
The relic of Iida's Zero was recovered by RDS Lockwood, a USMC officer, after
he recovered Iida's massively dismembered body from the crash site. In my
interviews in 1985-6 with him he noted having the "egg" relic, but I
could not obtain a photo or loan. In my recent update of his file, I talked with
him about the "egg" and its future. The item was donated to the Nimitz
Museum and thence I contacted Greg to obtain more data on the relic.
Just wanted to assure all that I continue the work on Japanese color,
markings, and part identification connection to 7 Dec 1941 crashes and crew
identifications that began in 1966. US MIAs are a part of this long term
project. As there are so many usurpers seeking crash locations to make attempts
at simple salvage recovery without regard to the history contained at existing
crash sites, much of this project stays under wraps until the proper authorities
complete their tasks.
One hope is that the midget submarine sank by USS WARD and PBY 14-P-1 will be
recovered next month.
AKAGI Zero [AI-101] Flown by Tadao KIMURA
*PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Saturday, 28 October 2000, at 7:46 a.m.
According to Shigeru NOHARA, Mitsubishi A6M2 model 21 Zero [AI-101] was flown
by Tadao KIMURA. (MA No.378).
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
A6M2 date of manufacture
Posted By: Ryan Toews <ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 12:29 p.m.
I am looking for info as to what the date of manufacture found in the
fuselage stencil would be for A6M2 s/n 3277 (flown by Iida) and s/n 5289 (flown
by Hirano). Based on production rates I have surmised that the date for the
latter would be 1-7-6 and for the former 1-6-25 but does someone have a more
definate date available
Re: A6M2 date of manufacture
Posted By: Ryan Toews <ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 2:40 p.m.
In Response To: A6M2 date of manufacture (Ryan
Toews)
Thank you Jim and Dave. That is the info I need but I can also see that I
need to work more on interpeting the production rates and the dates of
manufacture.
Re: A6M2 date of manufacture
Posted By: Rob Graham <reishikisenguy@aol.com>
Date: Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 9:26 a.m.
In Response To: Re: A6M2 date of manufacture (Ryan
Toews)
I think that what I have done is an offshoot research article based on Jim
Lansdale's and Jim Long's research, as presented in Bob Mikesh's book on the
Zero.
My work is still a little on the theoretical side, but I still think it has
some validity. If you'd like to see it, go here:
http://members.aol.com/reishikisenguy/zero_details
Re: A6M2 date of manufacture
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 4:33 p.m.
In Response To: Re: A6M2 date of manufacture (Ryan
Toews)
You write," I need to work more on interpeting the production rates and
the dates of manufacture."
No you don't! Jim LONG and I have already done this for both Mitsubishi and
Nakajima! Contact Jim LONG for the data.
Re: A6M2 serial "3277" history
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 7:49 a.m.
In Response To: A6M2 date of manufacture (Ryan
Toews)
The Mitsubishi serial number 3277 was discovered [in May 1979] in the USAAF
Hawaiian Air Depot preliminary summary document on technical intelligence for
AI-154 dated "copied 24 Dec 1941". This document suggested the serial
was for AI-154. However, the photo -posted on this web site- of AI-154 shows the
CORRECT serial "5289". I obtained this copyright photo from the US
Army photographer and clued Mr Lansdale of its existance.
Now we need to address the problem of the number 3277.
There were three Zeros found by technical intelligence folk: AI-154 at Fort
Kamehameha [over the fence from Hickam Field]; B11-120 on Niihau Island; and the
Iida Zero [tail code unknown].
AI-154 and the Iida Zero were recovered first. The Niihau Zero was reported
after the death of the pilot on 13 Dec 1941.
The AI-154 investigation report by the USAAF was quite detailed with the
added reports from each department in the Hawaiian Air Depot.
The single page US Navy Iida report, stamped 19 Feb 1942, seems heavily based
on the AI-154 report in that the writer slipped and gave the markings as a
single red fuselage stripe, but added that the Iida Zero had a two tone paint
scheme of Greenish-Khaki on top and Non-Spec (flat) Gray bottom. No serial is
cited.
The 16 Dec 1941 Kauai Island US Army CO report on the Niihau Zero did not
give a serial number. As only the phone connected Kauai to Oahu, delivery of the
report may have been via this method.
The bulk of the AI-154 reports from the Hawaiian Air Depot units were also
dated 16 Dec. The 24 Dec summary report author, thus had about a week to find
the "3277" on SOMETHING. What?
Could it be a swap of info from Kaneohe, or a phone call from Kauai? OR could
it be a replaced part on AI-154 taken from ANOTHER Zero by the Japanese crew
chief BEFORE the attack? The serial "3277" is a correct Mitsubishi
serial, but no answer is yet available about Niihau or Kaneohe's serial to
eliminate those planes as "3277".
The obvious replaced part possibility was determined on other Japanese planes
in early WWII. One that comes to mind is RUFE aircraft serial found on parts
from two different planes [one at Tulagi and the other farther up the
"slot"].
Re: A6M2 serial "3277" history
*PIC* *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 5:13 p.m.
In Response To: Re: A6M2 serial "3277" history
(David_Aiken)
David has done an excellent summary of the documents known to him regarding
the HIRANO and IIDA Zeros. Additional reports and conclusions are also to be
found in the NARA archives.
Below is the first page of the corrected "first draft" of the
so-called HIRANO Zero report. Subsequent pages went on to describe the aircraft
in greater detail. Other, more detailed reports, contained photographs of
various components and data plate information from the HIRANO and IIDA Zeros. It
is obvious that part numbers, serial numbers, and main-frame s/n have been
confused.
P.S.
Thank you David for your input and thank you for the information which gave
me leads to "find the rest of the story." Without this information I
would not have known where to begin my search. Such cooperation is always
invaluable!
The Larry HICKEY Collection was the source for some of the HIRANO Zero crash
site photographs. Others have come from another private collection and these
will be published in an upcoming history.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: A6M2 serial "3277" history
Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 6:42 p.m.
In Response To: Re: A6M2 serial "3277" history *PIC* *PIC* (James
F. Lansdale)
The data which Jim refers as "documents known to him regarding the
HIRANO and IIDA Zeros. Additional reports and conclusions are also to be found
in the NARA archives." I am so glad that I left good notes in the archives
for those who follow.
Re: A6M2 date of manufacture *PIC*
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 6:19 p.m.
In Response To: A6M2 date of manufacture (Ryan
Toews)
If the IIDA Zero was Mitsubishi A6M2 model 21 Zero, s/n 3277 (Mitsubishi c/n
277), it was constructed by Mitsubishi on or about 19 July 1941 (1-7-19).
The HIRANO Mitsubishi A6M2 model 21 Zero, s/n 5289 (Mitsubishi c/n 289) was
constructed on 9 August 1941 (1-8-9) as seen in the photo below.
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Midway Zero Relic Colors *PIC*
Posted By: Tom Matlosz <slayer14@bellsouth.net>
Date: Saturday, 25 November 2000, at 11:15 a.m.
These are the color choices I have for my Midway relic sample in the center.
The closest match is FS 14255, but it is not exact.
Tom Matlosz
(Posted by Jim Lansdale at Tom's request)
[Editors note: The image is not replicated in the
FAQs]
Re: Midway Zero Relic Colors
Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Saturday, 25 November 2000, at 4:22 p.m.
In Response To: Midway Zero Relic Colors *PIC* (Tom
Matlosz)
Taking into consideration the problems of monitors, scans and photos, I would
say that the color on your artifact is real close to the 'round-headed rivet'
Midway artifact at the Nimitz Museum. Now I'm REALLY confused. You need to bring
your artifact to Texas someday or I need to perfect a mix for the Nimitz piece
and send you a chip or vice-versa. BTW the 'heated' Midway artifact is pretty
close to 16160 in its present condition.
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