Kawasaki Ki-45 "Nick" 

 

Topics:

Need Help Regarding the Ki-45 Flaps

Ki45 armament

Ki-45 exterior colors 

Re: Nicks in Singapore

Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed *PIC*  

Ki-45, 5 Sentai guns removed and translation?  

Re: That's more like it!!! *PIC*

IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes   

WW II color film  

Ki-45 Color Photo - Spinner Colour  

Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots?  

More Queries on the Ki-45  

Nick being shot down *PIC*

Kashiide's Ki-45  

Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight  

Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun  

Ki-45 Nick (New)

Ki-45 early markings (New)

Blue mottled 53rd Sentai Ki.45 reported (New)

 

Need Help Regarding the Ki-45 Flaps

 

Posted By: Jim Oxley <jlo@webfront.net.au

Date: Saturday, 14 April 2001, at 10:14 p.m.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction to photo's or descriptions of where the flpas are located on the Ki-45? And how they deploy?

 

Re: Need Help Regarding the Ki-45 Flaps

 

 

Posted By: Nick Millman

Date: Sunday, 15 April 2001, at 12:46 a.m.

 

 

In Response To: Need Help Regarding the Ki-45 Flaps (Jim Oxley)

 

Maru Mechanic again Jim!

My edition has a good photograph of an open flap and diagrams showing the mechanism. It appears that the back of the engine nacelle deploys with the flaps, which slide back two thirds of their own width and can be dropped 50 degrees.

I'll send you some scans.

 

Ki45 armament

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.comR 

Date: Tuesday, 19 January 1999, at 2:57 p.m.

 

 

The Ki45 armamment went through a lot of changes and is rather confusing. Yoji Watanabe's "Sohatsu Sentoki Toryu" (1993) is a good study and the following info is taken from this book.  The Ki38 (the initial project before the Ki45 which did not materialize) requirement for a long range escort fighteequired a pair of machineguns in the nose as mainR armament. Then as the project develped into the Ki45, a caanon was added into the requrirement. The first cannon mounted on the Ki45 is the Type 97 AutomaticR cannon which is a Japanese built French Hotchkis anti-tank automatic weapon of 20mm caliber. This weapon was nearly 6 feet long and the Kawasaki engineersR asked the Army to make some modifications to the weapon because it was very difficult to fit the large cannon into the fuselage of the fighter. However, the IJAAFR did not have direct authority over guns (the people who stuck with the Russo-Japanese war era Type 38 infantry rifle throughout WW2 did) and no modificationsR could be made. The Kawasaki engineers managed to fit the cannon somehow, but the muzzle was now right under the pilot, and a 5mm steel plate was fitted toR protect the pilot against misfiring accidents.  A licence built version of the MG17 was intended to supplement this, but the Japanese could not manufacture constant quality springs used in laoading the weaponsR and only hand-held MG15s (which could be manually loaded) could be put into production. Thus the old Type 89 machinegun had to be used.  As the design developed into the Ki45-kai, the cannon was changed to the Type 98 anti aircraft gun (Ho-3), which was based on the same Hotchkis design, butR with a modified ammo drum which could now be changed from the rear seat. The nose guns were changed to Ho-103s. (This is the Ki45-kai ko)  The first 37mm gun mounted on the Ki45-kai was the Type 94 Tank Cannon (not:NOT anti-tank gun, but tank gun mounted on the Type 95 Light Tank). This gunR was mounted as an emergency measure to counter US heavy bombers encountered in Rabaul. It was a manual single-shot weapon loaded fromthe rear seat andR eight Ki45s and eight Ki46s fitted with this weapon were sent to Rabaul where they achieved some success against B-17s and B-24s. (Ki45-kai otsu)  Since the single shot tank gun was very difficult to use in air to air combat, the automatic Ho203 was mounted when they became available. The first Ki45-kai-heiR with the nose mounted Ho203 was completed in May 1943 (Ho3 under the fuslage was retained but the machine guns were removed) . The first batches had a short nose with the cannon protruding, but later the nose was extended. Yoji Watanabe has revealed that past studies often disregarded the single shot cannon OtsuR versions and called the version with the nose mounted cannon Otsu (and then wrongly assuming that the 37mm was under the fuselage and the 20mm in the nose).R and the version with the pointed nose as Hei.  The versions with upward firing cannons (either Ho103 or Ho5) were called Ki-45-kai-tei, and these had the Ho3 removed.  Although the Ki45-kai were often used mainly for ground attack in the islands campaign (because they could not fight on equal terms with single seat fighters) and the 37mm cannons then used for ground targets, the main intention of the large bore cannons was to combat US heavy bombers. R Gotta go to work! Bye  

 

Re: Ki-45 Armament

 

Posted By: Tom Hall <hall41@ix.netcom.com

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 11:01 a.m.  

 

In Response To: Ki45 armamment (Hiroyuki Takeuchi) 

 

Mr. Takeuchi, 

Thank you for these details. The Type 97 20mm is on page 23 of Kessaku no Ki #21, isn't it? Do you know where I can find a picture of the whole gun?  I find a picture of the whole 98 shiki kousha kikanhou on page 97 of Nihon Rikugun Souran, Senki Series #29. This is the gun in the Ki-45, but the magazine was different, right?  Finally, I was a little confused about what Mr. Watanabe said. Did he say that the Ki-45 Kai Otsu did not have a cannon in the nose? R I appreciate any help you can give.

 

Re: Ki-45 Armament 

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 6:02 p.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 Armament (Tom Hall) 

 

 The photo on page 23 of FAOW 21 is the Type 97 antitank gun modified to be mounted on Ki45. The photos on page 24 of the same are the Type 98 AA gunR modified for aircraft use (Ho3).  Ki45-Kai Otsu does not have a cannon in the nose. Watanabe, in the post script to his book, reveals that in the first print of his Toryu book, he thought he hadR "corrected" the myth that the Ki45-kai otsu was armed with two machine guns, a fuselage 37mm and a 20mm nose cannon. Through interviews with pilots andR observations of photos, he had thought that the Otsu was armed with nose machineguns, nose 37mm and fuselage 20mm. His definition of the Hei then, was for theR long nosed version without the gun protruding.  However, one day he was looking through JAAF records and found that it indicated the Otsu had one 37 mm and two machine guns only. He then made thoseR interviews with the individuals described in my earlier posting and found out that the Otsu was only those 20 or so Ko aircraft modified to accept the tank gunR instead of the 20mm antitank gun.  The Army arsenal modified 65 Ko aircrafts and added a Ho203 in the nose which became the Heis with protruding cannon. Kawasaki produced Heis had long nose covering the muzzle.  To wrap up the forward firing weapons of the Toryu  Ki45-kai ko: 12.7mm nose gun X 2 and 20mm fuselage gun X1 R Ki45-kai otsu: 12.7mm nose gun X2 and 37mm fuselage single shot tank gun X1 R Ki45-kai hei: 37mm automatic nose gun and 20mm fuselage gun R Ki45-kai tei: 37mm automatic nose gun and 20mm upward firing guns X2 R Ki45-kai ko tei-equipped a/c: Ki45 kai ko plus two upward firing 12.7mm R Ki45-kai hei tei-equipped a/c: Ki45 kai hei plus two upward firing 20mm R Ki45-kai bo one 40mm Ho301 under fuselage

 

Tom Hall, October 1999

Some months after Mr. Takeuchi's and Mr. Bradstreet's help with the Ki-45 armament, Asahi Journal published an illustrated article by Ted Bradstreet and E. F. Libby on the Ho-3 cannon. It is an outstanding work which debunks the notion that the Ho-3 is connected to the Type 98 anti-aircraft gun. For one thing, the cartridge sizes were different.

 

For another, the dimensions of the guns were different. In addition, the recoil mechanism of the Ho-3 is not that of a Type 98. The Type 98 part in the airplane photos is the muzzle brake, and this has caused Japanese writers to think that the Ho-3 was a sort of Type 98 AA gun. It wasn't. It was a modification of the Type 97 anti-tank rifle. Please see also Asahi Journal 4,1.

 

Ki45-kai bo clarification 

 

Posted By: Ted Bradstreet <tbstreet@uninets.net

Date: Thursday, 21 January 1999, at 9:06 a.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 Armament (Hiroyuki Takeuchi) 

 

Couple more questions: R Was the Ho301 the only gun mounted in the Ki45-kai bo? Not a good thing for the crew if so.  Was the Ho301 mounted in the ventral tunnel or on the aircraft exterior?

 

Re: Ki45-kai bo clarification 

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com

Date: Thursday, 21 January 1999, at 6:11 p.m.  

 

In Response To: Ki45-kai bo clarification (Ted Bradstreet) The Ki45-kai-bo was equipped with radar and ground to air guidance equipment which weighed more than 300 lbs. In order to compensate for the weight increase, all guns were removed and replaced with a single Ho301, which was lightweight. It was hoped that during night fighting, it would be possible to get in close and fire the cannon, although the difficulty in getting a hit from that weapon was well understood. The gun was mounted in the ventral tunnel. Only a dozen or so were converted. 

 

Re: Ki45 armamment Posted By: Ted Bradstreet <tbstreet@uninets.net

Date: Tuesday, 19 January 1999, at 7:58 p.m.  

 

In Response To: Ki45 armamment (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)  

 

OK now I'm confused! US sources very often refer to the Ho-3 as the "Type 97" and I understood that it was derived from the anti-tank gun, not the Type 98R anti-aircraft gun, which is even more powerful, IIRC. And the Type 94 tank gun caught me by surprise -- was the Type 98 field gun never mounted? Francillon is not a good source...  

 

Re: Ki45 armament -37mm weapon 

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 1:13 a.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki45 armamment (Ted Bradstreet)  

 

According to Watanabe, when the army was faced with the need to defend Rabaul from the US heavies, Lt. Col Arifumi Kumon of Operations HeadquartersR Tactics Dept (Sanpo Honbu Sakusen-ka) asked Major Takashi Hatao of Dept 7, Air Headquarters (Kokuhonbu) to come up with a solution. Hatao in turnR consulted his classmate Major Motohiko Fukuhara at the Weaponary Department who came up with the idea to mount the Type 94 tank cannon on the Type 100econ plane (Dinah). The Tachikawa Technical Research Lab (Gijutsu Kenkyusho) undertook the conversion. It was then only natural that the idea to mount theR same cannon on the Ki45-kai came up, and the conversion was undertaken by the Tachikawa Army Air Arsenal (Rikugun Koku Kosho). About eight (or six) eachR of these conversion were initially made and they were then sent to Rabaul.  Official JAAF records back up the fact these conversions were made. A JAAF technical officer also states that 20 Ki45-kais were mounted with Type 94s. TheR same JAAF record lists the rate of fire for these guns at 1 round per 30 seconds for Ki-45 and 1 round per 3 minutes for the Ki46s. Watanabe was puzzles by thisR and interviewed the people who made the conversions. He found out that the difference came from the fact that while the rear crew could load shells on the Ki-45,R the cannon was mounted on the nose of the Ki46 and the pilot had to reload the cannon while flying the plane.  Watanabe admits some JAAF front line personnel or even JNAF personnel referring to "anti-tank cannons" mounted on Ki45s and 46s in Rabaul, and that'sR probably where the story came from. There are no JAAF records that indicate the use of the Type 98 field gun.R

 

Re: Ki45 armament 

 

Posted By: Ted Bradstreet <tbstreet@uninets.net

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 11:35 a.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki45 armament -37mm weapon (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)

 

Thanks Hiroyuki, a pleasure as always. R Going back to Type 97 AT vs Type 98 AA as the basis of the H0-3, I will check to see if Dr. Masaya Kawamura (he worked on the conversion and designed the double-drum magazine) made clear which it was in his writing to the British MOD Patern Room. I'm quite sure, however, that the cartidges for the Ho-3 used air-to-air projectile types loaded into the Type 97 AT case. The Type 98 AA was a bigger gun with much higheecoil. This is not to say it wasn't used, but I do want to know.  I have to say that I tend to forget the non-belt-fed guns, since I concentrate on belts. Can you answer a couple more questions about the Ho-3 for me?  1. When was it first used? (I think Dr. Kawamura says it was developed in 1938-9.)  2. Was it ever used as a wing gun for a single-seat fighter, as I think Francillon claims? 

 

Re: Ki45 armament 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 6:18 p.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki45 armament (Ted Bradstreet)  

According to Watanabe, the Ho3 went into service about the same time the Ki45-kai was accepted so must be around 1941.  As for the use of Ho3s, there are photos of Ki84 prototypes with wing cannons that look a lot like Ho3 (charactertistic muzzle) and captioned as such in FAOW #19 pages 59-60. 

 

Re: Ho-3, etc. 

 

Posted By: Ted Bradstreet <tbstreet@uninets.net

Date: Wednesday, 20 January 1999, at 8:32 p.m.  

 

In Response To: Re: Ki45 armament (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)  

 

Thanks again. 

I did some checking: Kawamura says he worked on the Ho-3 in 1939 (but not what he based it on) and then passed it to the IJA, who reported (to US Army Ordnance Technical Intelligence in 1945) developing it further in 1940, and that it first went ito the Ki-45 in 1941. Also, cartridges marked for the Ho-3 inR collections are definitely based on the Type 97 AT cartridge case and photos and drawings of the Ho-3 look just like the AT gun. Though there are many projectile types known for the Type 98 AA gun, they are all ground AA types. Must conclude Watanabe got a bum steer on that one.  Also, I find no evidence whatsoever of the existence of any IJA 37-mm "Type 98 field gun" -- Francillon strikes again!  More food for thought: The Ho-203 cartridge is based on the Type 11 infantry gun (the smallest IJA 37-mm "field gun") cartridge. Is it possible the Ho-203 is just a Type 11 with an automatic feed added? It's mechanically an artillery piece. Guess I'll have to answer that myself by finding a parts diagram for the Type 11 -- not an aircraft-related matter.

Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed *PIC*

Posted By: James F. Lansdale LRAJIM@aol.com

Date: Wednesday, 16 January 2002, at 4:38 a.m.

 

Does anyone on this MB know where the following photo was taken or have a positive I.D. of the unit represented by the "fan" marking on the tail?

 

This photo has the "feel" of one in the Australian War Memorial Collection. Perhaps Garth O'CONNELL or someone else could have a "look see" and provide the caption for it.

 

Jim Lansdale

 

Credit: "IJA Aircraft of the PacWar: Vol.II," Military Aircraft Special Issue, Sep.'97: Delta Pub., p.31

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/ki-45_fantail.jpg

 

Re: Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed

 

Posted By: Garth garth.o'connell@awm.gov.au

Date: Sunday, 20 January 2002, at 10:36 p.m.

 

In Response To: Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)

 

Interesting image and information there Jim and Ken! Unfortunately, the image is not in the AWM collection. We do have some Ki-45 images though, mainly captured TAIC images.

 

Re: Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed

 

Posted By: Ken Glass

Date: Sunday, 20 January 2002, at 10:41 a.m.

 

In Response To: Nick Base/Unit I.D. Needed *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)

 

This photo was also shown in the 'Letters to the Editor...' section of Air Combat 1939*1945 by Eagle Aviation Enterprises, Rockaway, New Jersey, bottom of page 93, Vol.2, No.3, 1969. The image size is 2 1/4" x 5 1/2".

The photo caption says:

"From our reader in Italy, Jerome Geeson, comes another fine photograph. This one, taken in Burma in the years 1943/44, shows a captured Kawasaki Ki45 Kai. Note the unusual fin marking."

 

The dark horizontal streak above the rear fuselage of the Nick appears to be two lines of heavy trucks parked bumper to bumper. Some sort of a winged device seems to be on the other plane's tail (Nate or Ki.79?), visible just over the Nick's left wingtip area. Perhaps the fellow with bush hat and shades, resting on the Nick's nacelle, is Jerome Geeson.

 

Ki-45, 5 Sentai guns removed and translation?

 

Posted By: Jose Luis Fauste

Date: Saturday, 12 January 2002, at 4:25 p.m.

 

I want to make a model of a Ki-45 Hei of the 5 Sentai. Particulary the a/c depicted on the photos at page 49 of the FAOW #21. On this a/c, I think that the guns were removed (the upper twin 20 mm and the rear gun for sure) but it was removed as well the main lower 37 mm gun? On one of these photos the gunsight is very clear. Also I would like if anyone can translate these photo captions

 

Re: Ki-45, 5 Sentai guns removed and translation?

 

Posted By: ted bradstreet <tbstreet@mint.net

Date: Saturday, 12 January 2002, at 5:46 p.m.

 

In Response To: Ki-45, 5 Sentai guns removed and translation? (Jose Luis Fauste)

 

The Ki-45 KAI hei did not have dorsal 20 mm guns. There is no way to know from these photos if the 37 mm nose or rear flexible guns were removed. The 37 mm Ho-203 normally was completely concealed within the nose. The rear flexible gun normally was completely retracted into the cockpit when the canopy was closed as in the middle and bottom photos. These photos do not show inside the belly tunnel, so we do not certainly know about the 20 mm Ho-3, but there is no reason at all to believe that any guns were removed from this aircraft.

 

Re: That's more like it!!! *PIC*

 

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com

Date: Sunday, 25 November 2001, at 6:41 a.m.

 

You write, "Black undersurfaces on the Nick? So skillfully painted, by brush, that they match exactly the shadow cast by the overhead sun under the stabilisor?"

 

This is true as an oblique, but straight, shadow line under the horizontal stabilizer and the wing. However, please note (see photo below) that the "shadow cast" is very irregular along the lower side of the mid fuselage (around the hinomaru and aft of the wing). If this were a shadow line, it should be straight as well!

 

Are you suggesting that the fuselage is damaged in these areas? Also, note the "shadow cast" above the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilizer (just to the rear of the Tojo tail. Is there a light source below the Nick?

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/ki-44_clarkcolor.jpg

 

Re: Rescan of Kokufan Pic: Clark Field Lineup *PIC*

 

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com

Date: Friday, 23 November 2001, at 8:35 p.m.

 

Pete CHALMERS writes:

 

"Here's the 'Tweak' of the Clark pic, focusing on the part of the picture which contains most of the color information:

 

I have:

 

(1) Reduced RED ( on the cyan-red scale )

 

(2) Increased GREEN ( on the magenta-green scale )

 

(3) Increased BLUE ( on the yellow-blue scale )

 

(4) Reduced BRIGHTNESS

 

(5) Increased SATURATION

 

This was done on a 300 dpi scan using PaintShopPro 7 (PSP7) and the converted to a JPG file - I've kept the compression down in order to minimize image degradation - the monitor views are very close comparing the psp and jpg files.

 

I think that the "gray-green" begins to show on the mottled Nick, but I'm not absolutely convinced that the base color is not just oxidized NMF."

 

Pete, as you have requested, I have posted the rescan you did of the Clark Field color line-up below.

 

I do not think the Nick with mottling is n/m. Most Nicks had a base coat painted on at the factory. However, I now notice that the lower surface on that Nick appears to have been painted in a dark color, possibly black?

 

What do you think?

 

Credit: Koku Fan Magazine 7/72 via Pete Chalmers

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/clarkcolor_chalmers.jpg

Posted By: Micah Bly <yak@targetrabaul.com

Date: Monday, 4 February 2002, at 4:33 p.m.

 

I'm trying to gather together some data to do a couple Ki-45 schemes from 1943, New Guinea/Rabaul area. I was reading through the FAQs today, and came across a reference to IJAAF use of a hairyokushoku color on twin-engined planes. I tried to poke around, but I didn't find any FS #s or other classifications for this color. It sounds like this was standard all-surface paint for twins until they switched to a darker factory surface later in the war.

 

Can anybody point me in the direction of what this color would look like? Similar to the IJNAF HRS?

 

I had been ready to assume that the Ki-45s were NMF plus field applied dark green camo.

 

Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes *PIC*

 

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com

Date: Monday, 4 February 2002, at 7:20 p.m.

 

In Response To: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes (Micah Bly)

 

It is assuredly certain that Kawasaki painted their Ki-45s in an overall finish. The problem has been to acertain the exact color. To the best of my recollection I examined two or three relics in NARA. The colors I recorded were in the FS-16160/16350 range for the base color. This is also true for the Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily relics in the Dr. Charles DARBY Collection I have also analyzed.

 

The Nicks were painted in the field with a reticulated pattern of dark olive-green, probably in the range of the greens and/or dark-olive colors reported by Don THORPE and Katsushi OWAKI.

 

Below is one of a few color photographs taken by Shunkichi KIKUCHI during World War II. While these colors are only approximate of the true colors, one may see the general pattern and colors as they appeared on a shotai of No.53 Hiko Sentai Nicks in 1945.

 

Credit: (c) Shunkichi Kikuchi; Koku Fan Magazine, Bunrindo Pub: March 1995, p.83.

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/ki-45_53f_color.jpg

 

Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes

 

Posted By: Mark L. Shannon <Shingend@ix.netcom.com

Date: Thursday, 7 February 2002, at 12:01 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)

 

The spinners on the lowest of the three aircraft look interesting - It is hard to tell, but it looks like it could be spirals in yellow on the red or red-brown color. Opinions?

 

Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes

 

Posted By: Paul O'Neil <hudson29@aol.com

Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2002, at 1:40 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)

 

I have never heard there were ANY color photos of J-Aircraft on the wing. Was the film indigenous or captured from the Allies? If captured, how on earth did they process it? If indigenous, was it similar to Kodachrome?

 

Most important, where can we view other images? I couldn't get my printer working fast enough on the one you just posted here!

 

Re: IJAAF Color Photos/Book

 

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com

Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2002, at 3:38 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes (Paul O'Neil)

 

I haven't a clue on the type or origin of the color film used by Shunkichi KIKUCHI to take his series of color photos.

 

These photos first appeared in print in "The Japanese Army Wings of the Second World War," Bunrin-do:1972 along with a host of top-quality black and white photos!!! The color photos were "enhanced" from the originals in this publication and mold marks removed.

 

The original color photos, with their imperfections, first appeared in print in 1995 in the March edition of Koku Fan Magazine, completely unenhanced (one of which you have seen in my post).

 

I have no spare copies of the magazine, but if you would like a copy of the original 186-page h/b book you may contact me off-line for a sale/trade.

 

WW II color film

 

Posted By: Pete Chalmers

Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: IJA Hairyokushoku? Ki-45 schemes (Paul O'Neil)

 

AFAIK, there were two WW II color transparency films - Kodachrome (ASA 25) introduced in 1935, and German Agfacolor (DIN 15) introduced in 1936.

 

My guess is that the film used was Agfacolor - it was available in Italy by 1937 and I imagine the Japanese as the other Axis partner probably had some supplied.

 

Agfacolor is more green hue dominant, while Kodachrome is more red dominant, and both were extremely narrow in range given the very slow speed, but could also give quite striking results given good lighting and a steady camera.

 

What amazes me is the clarity of these air-to-air shots. Nowadays, we have ASA 200 or ASA 400 color film which fixes many of the speed problems.

 

Re: WW II color film

 

Posted By: Paul O'Neil <hudson29@aol.com

Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2002, at 7:23 p.m.

 

In Response To: WW II color film (Pete Chalmers)

 

Thanks for the info on Agfa, I did not realize there was a prewar version.

 

One of the many nice things about the old Kodachrome images is that they were pretty stable. The recent spate of books with color WWII images is largely due to GIs have exposed and processed the film and then put it away for half a century only to be dug out now. Many are as clear as if they were taken yesterday. Kodachrome 25, a faster version of the original Kodachrome [asa 10]) was available until quite recently and it was my long time favorite.

 

Kodachrome is much more difficult to process than Ektachrome and that would argue against using "captured" Kodachrome. Given the long standing Japanese interest in photography, it is quite possible that both stocks of film and the processing lab may have been present in Japan before the war.

 

If the originals could be examined it is a simple matter to tell if the slides are Kodachrome or not. If the emulsion side has a 3D build up in the dense areas, it's Kodachrome!

 

Re: WW II color film

 

Posted By: Bill Sanborn <bsanborn@psemc.com

Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2002, at 5:13 p.m.

 

In Response To: WW II color film (Pete Chalmers)

 

Are the types of film you listed for still or motion picture or does it matter?

 

Re: WW II color film

 

Posted By: Pete Chalmers

Date: Wednesday, 6 February 2002, at 6:08 a.m.

 

In Response To: Re: WW II color film (Bill Sanborn)

 

We know that Kodak made color movie film, and I'm pretty sure that Agfa did also, as there are some color movies taken by the Germans during the war. I'm sure you've also all seen the color gun camera film taken in the Pacific by the USN. The "WW II in Color" Series on the History Channel has had some amazing color movies.

 

I would guess that the movie color film process(es) were identical to the still camera film.

 

The slow speed made this somewhat problematic, and the developnig process was initially only done at the "factory" and was slow and expwnsive.

 

Color Film History Links

 

Posted By: Pete Chalmers

Date: Wednesday, 6 February 2002, at 6:25 a.m.

 

In Response To: Re: WW II color film (Bill Sanborn)

 

Here are some links on the subject - I'm sure there are more and perhaps better ones.

 

http://www.f32.com/articles/article.asp?artID=128

 

http://www.cinematographer.com/article/mainv/0,7220,118719,00.html

 

http://www.cinematographer.com/article/mainv/0,7220,112581,00.html

 

Sakura Natural color film

 

Posted By: Pete Chalmers

Date: Wednesday, 6 February 2002, at 6:43 a.m.

 

In Response To: Re: WW II color film (Bill Sanborn)

 

I forgot about Sakura color film, introduced in 1940 - this in fact may have been the film used, not Agfacolor. Research continues !!!

 

Ki-45 Color Photo - Spinner Colour

 

Posted By: Nick Millman

Date: Wednesday, 6 February 2002, at 2:28 p.m.

 

Thanks for showing this - the reproduction is much better than in the JAAF "Wings" book mentioned.

 

Of particular interest is the deep, almost chocolate, brown colour and sheen of the spinners on at least two of these aircraft. I am assuming the middle aircraft has yellow (?) painted on the spinners. Some scale models of JAAF aircraft have the spinners painted in a paler orange-brown, very flat in finish. I always think that spoils the appearance and that a deeper, "satin" brown looks much more pleasing and convincing.

 

Also interesting are the noticeable differences in the camouflage scheme and style, from 'plane to 'plane.

 

Must have been quite a sight!

 

Re: Ki-45 Color Photo - Spinner Colour

 

Posted By: Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com

Date: Wednesday, 6 February 2002, at 3:24 p.m.

 

In Response To: Ki-45 Color Photo - Spinner Colour (Nick Millman)

 

Just a stray observation while looking at the color photo. I think I can see a variation of a segmented camo scheme on the upper surfaces of the Nicks. Looking closely it appears the pattern of individual oblong dark mottles of color are nearly all aligned in the same way along a diagonal 'segment'. A segment appears bounded on each side by segments with the majority alignments of their dark mottles rotated differently from those of the middle segment. This may be a fluke since we only have one viewing angle in the photo. The visual effect is small, sort of like an eye test for color blindness. Has anyone seen other examples of this kind of pattern?

 

Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots?

 

Posted By: erik whipple <tatzelwurm109@earthlink.net

Date: Sunday, 10 February 2002, at 3:22 p.m.

 

I was mining websites last night and happened upon a great photo of some aircrew standing infront of a Toryu with noseart attributed to an ace named Yamamoto. Do any of you know if he is in this photo, and if so which one he is?

 

Just follow the link to view the photo, it's at the bottom of the page. TIA, Erik

 

http://www.wwiitech.net/main/japan/Aircraft/ki-45/index.html

 

Re: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots?

 

Posted By: Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca

Date: Sunday, 10 February 2002, at 3:36 p.m.

 

In Response To: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots? (erik whipple)

 

According to Asahi Journal Volume 4 Number 1 (page 21), the aircraft was from the 4th Sentai and the nose art was used on their air to air ramming squad named Kaitenkai. It shows a broken wing B-29 in white (?) with the arrow device in red (?). Inside the arrow device are the kanji characters for Kaiten.

 

No information about Yamamoto though.

 

Re: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots?

 

Posted By: Will Treadway <TREADWILLWAY@aol.com

Date: Sunday, 10 February 2002, at 7:34 p.m.

 

In Response To: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots? (erik whipple)

 

That photo appears in B-29 Hunters by Sakaida (p. 105). There is no mention of Yamamoto in the caption. I finally tracked down a copy of this book and it is v. well done.

 

Re: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots?

 

Posted By: Lloyd <Lloydsrustoo@msn.com

Date: Monday, 11 February 2002, at 8:35 a.m.

 

In Response To: Can you identify one of these Ki-45 pilots? (erik whipple)

 

I think this guy would be Miasaburo Yamamoto, who I don't think was an ace.

 

More Queries on the Ki-45

 

Posted By: Nick Millman

Date: Sunday, 17 February 2002, at 4:30 a.m.

 

When assigned for air-to-air ramming attacks the Toryu often seems to have had the rear canopy opening faired over with sheet metal (?). Some sources (B-29 Hunters) suggest an observer was still carried in these aircraft.

 

What was the purpose of the fairing - did it improve aerodynamics? Did this alone justify the abandoning of the rear armament?

 

Given the absence of rear gunnery what was the primary role of the observer?

 

Re: More Queries on the Ki-45

 

Posted By: Grant Elliott <guzzi@space.net.au

Date: Sunday, 17 February 2002, at 5:12 a.m.

 

In Response To: More Queries on the Ki-45 (Nick Millman)

 

My take on this is, modifications to the standard canopy were effected when oblique cannon were fitted. The metal was unlikely to dislodge under the muzzle blast of the cannon. Ultimately, when ramming tactics were used, the old airframes would have been used with less skilled pilots. I doubt an observer/loader would have been aboard, unless by choice.

Corrections and additions to my statements welcome.

 

Nick being shot down *PIC*

 

Posted By: Keith Webb <kgee@imagecontrol.com.au>

Date: Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 2:48 p.m.

 

Nick going down...

This dramatic picture was taken in the South West Pacific area by a crewman of a B-24. The aircraft was shot down by the mid-upper gunner. I interviewed the co-pilot of the B-24, Ed Crabtree. Ed is now involved in the rebuilding of a B24 in Melbourne, Australia to static display. He was the last man to fly that particular aircraft.

I will shortly be posting an even more dramatic pic of a Tabby going down in flames.

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/Aircraft/libs/Nick.jpg

 

Nick shot down?

 

Posted By: richard dunn <rdunn@rhmith.umd.edu>

Date: Tuesday, 16 April 2002, at 5:53 a.m.

 

In Response To: Nick being shot down *PIC* (Keith Webb)

 

Unfortunately I do not have the 380 BG mission report on this. My notes indicate 6 B-24s encountered ten Japanese fighters near Jefman Island. They claimed four fighters and lost one B-24.

 

23d Air Flotilla WD says nine Zeros intercepted six B-24s near Sorong and shot down three. No mention of Navy loss. One Army fighter was burned on the ground at Biak by B-24s.

 

It seems possible based on the above information that the Toryu returned to Biak in a damaged condition and then burned up. Apparently 5th Sentai suffered no pilot loss that day.

 

Ed Crabtree would have been flying in a USAAF B-24 as RAAF Liberators were not operational in May 44.

 

Perhaps others can add additional details.

 

Is date/location details mate?

 

Posted By: Garth O'Connell <garth.o'connell@awm.gov.au>

Date: Monday, 15 April 2002, at 6:49 p.m.

 

In Response To: Nick being shot down *PIC* (Keith Webb)

 

I'd really like to know these details and whether he was on a USAAF or RAAF Liberator.

 

Re: Is date/location details mate? *PIC*

 

Posted By: Keith Webb <kgee@imagecontrol.com.au>

Date: Monday, 15 April 2002, at 8:42 p.m.

 

In Response To: Is date/location details mate? (Garth O'Connell)

 

Not too sure - I'll have to ask Ed, the pilot concerned. Although he is an Australian, Ed flew for a time with the USAAF and I have a feeling it was during that time the picture was taken.

 

I believe they were operating out of Fenton in Northern Australia, flying a mix of both D and J models.

 

The incident where he shot down the Nick occurred on May 8 1944 flying B24J with the serial 209 (perhaps the last 3 digits of a US serial?) Ed was Co-pilot and Lt. Kreuger was pilot. Their trip was Fenton-Halmahera. I recall Ed saying the incident with the Tabby took place a few weeks later.

 

Editors note: Picture at http://www.oldcmp.net/Images/Aircraft/libs/b24broken.jpg

 

Kashiide's Ki-45

 

Posted By: Thomas Lund <thlund@yorkref.com>

Date: Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 4:25 a.m.

 

Got my hands on Nichimo's Ki-45 Nick in 1:48th scale. I'm no expert on Japanese aircraft.

 

I got the Osprey Jap Army Aces and I'm really interested in doing Kashiide's Ki-45. First of all : How accurate is that book and especially the profile on Kashiide's a/c. Are there any photo's of Kashiide's a/c besides the ones in the book ?

 

Secondly : Kashiide's a/c is listed, as far as i remember, as a Ki-45 KAI-ko with a more rounded nose than the one in the kit. Is that correct ?. It looks like a small

window in the extreme nose - what's that for ? Is therea drawing that would enable me to correct that nose to the correct shape ? Are there any photo's, good close up, of a nose like that ?

 

wow - lot's of ??'s - hope you can help me with them !

 

Re: Kashiide's Ki-45

 

Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>

Date: Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 5:12 p.m.

 

In Response To: Kashiide's Ki-45 (Thomas Lund)

 

How accurate is Osprey's IJAAF?...

All of Henry Sakaida's books are good. He's earned a lot of respect for not only his excellent research, but his fairness in presenting information.

 

How accurate is the profile on Kashiide's a/c?...

I'd have to check on that (answering this off the top of my head). Somone else may know this one

 

Kashiide's a/c is listed as a Ki-45 KAI-ko with a more rounded nose than the one in the kit. Is that correct?...

The Koh model was an earlier version with a more rounded or blunted nose.

 

Small window in the extreme nose - what's that for?

That's a headlight for landing.

 

Is there a drawing that would enable me to correct that nose to the correct shape ? Are there any photo's, good close up, of a nose like that ?

I can provide you with several good shots of this type of nose. I will email them to you shortly.

 

Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight

 

Posted By: Jomo Stewart <Silograph@earthlink.net>

Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 12:04 a.m.

 

I am wondering if anyone has pictures or diagrams detailing how the gunsight for the twin Ho-5 cannon (mounted at 30 degrees) was installed in the Ki-45 Kai C cockpit.

 

Any information would be invaluable.

 

Re: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight

 

Posted By: Nick Millman

Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 3:56 a.m.

 

In Response To: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight (Jomo Stewart)

 

A study of oblique armed Ki-45 photographs in FAOW 21 and other books reveals very little evidence of the whole gunsight being fitted in this position for the oblique armament - there is not enough room anyway.

 

However - there is a colour photograph of the "remnants" of one, which appears to be just the graticle plates, identified as a "Type 2 gunsight", mounted to the central upper bar of the rearmost windscreen frame of the surviving NASM Nick. You can find the photo on page 35 of Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945 by Robert C Mikesh (Monogram Aviation Publications, USA, 2000).

 

Is this mounting genuine and original? I don't know. Is this what can just be made out in the photo on page 51 of FAOW 21? I have no idea how the illumination might work on the graticle in this position unless it was thrown up from the body of the gunsight mounted in the conventional position? Photographs suggest this might be the case.

 

Re: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight

 

Posted By: Jomo Stewart <silograph@earthlink.net>

Date: Thursday, 6 June 2002, at 1:19 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight (Nick Millman)

 

Thanks for the reply Nick. That's an interesting idea, being illuminated from the standard gunsight. I have Mikesh's book as well, and was thinking it highly improbable that a Type 2 Sight could fit there as well.

 

Re: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight

 

Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>

Date: Thursday, 6 June 2002, at 5:18 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 KAI C oblique gunsight (Jomo Stewart)

 

I have some photos of the Ki-45 at NASM Garber I could scan and send. I don't have any way to post them here, but may be able to send them direct if you're interested. I don't know how much detail I have, but I know I have some shots of the gunsite.

 

Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun

 

Posted By: DANIS Jean-Charles <jean-charles.danis@cfwb.be>

Date: Wednesday, 12 June 2002, at 11:45 p.m.

 

I've read that a half dozen Ki-45s were fitted experimentally with a 75mm gun (probably similar to the one installed on the Ki-109). However, this installation was soon rejected as the recoil of the gun was too powerful for the Ki-45 airframe.

 

Does photographs of this special installation exist ?

 

Re: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi

Date: Friday, 14 June 2002, at 12:08 p.m.

 

In Response To: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun (DANIS Jean-Charles)

 

I think that is an error for 57mm guns. That existed and served as test beds for the Ki102otsu. Physically impossible to mount a 75mm gun on the Ki45.

 

Re: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun

 

Posted By: Nick Millman

Date: Friday, 14 June 2002, at 4:57 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)

 

This one has been around for some time, probably as long as the lilac Rufe:

 

Green & Swanborough, 1976:

 

"A half dozen Toryus were fitted with a hand-loaded 75mm Type 88 cannon for the dual bomber intercept/anti-shipping role, but although an extensive test programme was conducted, it was concluded that the weight of the weapon rendered the aircraft too unwieldy, apart from the fact that the airframe was too small to absorb the recoil of the cannon satisfactorily."

 

Francillon, 1979:

 

"One aircraft was experimentally armed with a 75mm anti-tank cannon but the heavy calibre gun proved too much for the fairly light structure of the Toryu."

 

Francillon (again), date unknown, Profile 105:

 

"but the most interesting armament trial was the installation of a 75mm anti-tank cannon."

 

Then of course there was the twin-Hiryu mounting the railway gun . . . . . .

 

Back to reality, FAOW 21 mentions the fitting of the 57mm cannon (on page 16) - could you please translate this short piece for us?

 

Re: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun

 

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi

Date: Friday, 14 June 2002, at 5:27 p.m.

 

In Response To: Re: Ki-45 fitted with a 75mm gun (Nick Millman)

 

HO401 equipped aircraft

 

An experimental plane with a 57mm Ho401cannon in the nose. ONe was modified at the Army Air Arsenal. Design work was started in April 43 and the plane was completed in September. The Ho401 was later installed in the Ki102.

 

Also, Minoru Akimoto's "Nihon Gunyouki Kokusen Zenshi" states that the nose was lengthened by 1 meter because the cannon was 2.04 meter long.