- Nakajima Ki-44
"Tojo"
-
- Topics:
- Ki-44 paint scheme question
- Ki-44 Canopy Slide Mechanism
- Ki 44 Yellow "home
defence" bands?
- Ki-44 yellow ID stripes
- Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
- Origin and Meaning of Shoki
(New)
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- Posted By: Ramesh Gill <ramesh_gill@hotmail.com>
- Date: Thursday, 19 April 2001, at 2:07 a.m.
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- Just wondering whether any Ki-44 units ever had the simple solid green over solid grey paint scheme like many early Ki-43s, instead of the more common mottle camoflage. Thanks in advance.
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- Re: Ki-44 paint scheme question
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- Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>
- Date: Thursday, 19 April 2001, at 4:49 a.m.
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- In Response To: Ki-44 paint scheme question
(Ramesh Gill)
-
- This is a scan from Kokufan of a solid brown over grey-brown ( FS 33105 / 30118 ) over gray-brown ( FS 36405 ) scheme on a late Ki-44 ( reflector gunsight ) found at Clark AB, P.I. in 1945.
- This and other BW pics of both Ki-43 III, Ki-44, and Ki-84 show very simialr schemes with a grey-stencilled serial forward of the horozontal stab. which *may* indicate this scheme was used on all these aircraft and was a factory scheme.
- Link: http://www.marksindex.com/aviation/temp/tojo_1.jpg
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- Posted By: Donald Anderson <sundastrait@yahoo.com>
- Date: Monday, 26 March 2001, at 5:46 p.m.
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- I'm working on a model of a Ki-44 I and have collected several books on the plane (Maru Mechanic, R.Beuschel & R.Francillon) and can't find any handles, cranks or bars on the inside of the cockpit or canopy for the pilot to open/close the canopy. In one photo of a Ki-44 II I can just make out a handle(?) at the inside base of the canopy but it is too obscure being partially blocked by the pilot's shoulder. If someone has any info or picture of this and would be willing to share it I would be most obliged to you.
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- Re: Ki-44 Canopy Slide Mechanism
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- Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
- Date: Tuesday, 27 March 2001, at 12:55 p.m.
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- In Response To: Ki-44 Canopy Slide Mechanism (Donald Anderson)
-
- I haven't been able to find any information on the way that the Ki-44's canopy functions so can't say for sure; but from doing a quick scan of photos...
- I believe the Ki-44's canopy was operated by sliding it manually. No drawings show a mechanism on the canopy, but I have found several photos that appear to show some sort of locking/lever mechanism on the inside portside, about 2/3s of the way up the framing of the sliding section of canopy (FAoW #16, p 18).
- Also, there appears to be a corresponding rectangular "button" on the port side exterior of the canopy, in the same area; probably a release/finger-grab to open the canopy when closed from the outside (Maru Mechanic #44, p 23).
- I found one photo that shows a small handle on the inside of the canopy on the starboard side. Can't tell whether this handle is attached to the fixed front windscreen framing or the sliding canopy section. This seems to be an anomaly though as I can find no other photo that shows a handle in this location (FAoW #16, p 38 lower).
- I'm rather busy at the moment so I'll send you some pics later in the day.
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- Re: Ki-44 Canopy Slide Mechanism
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- Posted By: Donald Anderson <sundastrait@yahoo.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 27 March 2001, at 3:45 p.m.
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- In Response To: Re: Ki-44 Canopy Slide Mechanism (Don Marsh)
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- Thanks for the tips. I'll look more closely at the pics I do have in those areas. I did see what appears to be a small handle on the starboard sliding canopy inside frame too (Bueschel p.18 top). I'm guessing that with the spine's canopy guide a person could close the canopy with one handle. Don't suppose I could have picked a more esoteric subject. I do appreciate your taking the time & trouble to look into it.
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- Posted By: Ramesh Gill <ramesh_gill@hotmail.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 6 March 2001, at 12:26 a.m.
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- Does anyone have details regarding the blue color used on the undersides of the Ki-44 flying in the CBI theatre? The only reference I have is from the old Otaki kit that calls for Gunze H20 which is no longer being produced.
- Also, is the Ki-44 blue the same as used on some Ki-43s?
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- Re: Ki-44 blues
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- Posted By: Nick Millman
- Date: Tuesday, 6 March 2001, at 12:15 p.m.
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- In Response To: Ki-44 blues (Ramesh Gill)
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- Ki-44's of the 85th Sentai in China supposedly had a blue-grey colour on the undersurfaces of their aircraft. This may well have been the standard Chinese Air Force pale underside blue. Colors were more influenced by theatre/area of operations than aircraft type as local/captured paint stocks were widely used. A pale underside blue was widely reported on JAAF types in the CBI, including Ki-43's.
- References for this color include:
- Ian K Baker - color 28 pale/light blue grey
- Don Thorpe - color A10
- Model Art 329 - gray-blue (not specified)
- FS 35526 (approx)
- A Humbrol mix for the FS color would be H130 Satin White 9 parts, H109 Matt WWI Blue 1 part and H124 Satin Petrol Blue 1 part
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- Posted By: JC CARBONEL <jean-christophe.carbonel@laposte.fr>
- Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 8:28 a.m.
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- While speaking of ki 44 . What about those machines which appear to have yellow "home defense" wraparound bands on their fuselage instead of the customary white ? Was it linked to a squadron ? to a temporary lack of white paint ;-) ???
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- Re: Ki 44 "home defence" bands: white
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- Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 11:56 a.m.
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- In Response To: Ki 44 Yellow "home defence" bands?
(JC CARBONEL)
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- In gathering photos of Ki-44s [by number on the landing gear] one finally gets enough to realize that the same Ki-44 with "yellow" home defense bands are white in other photos. The "yellow" ones seemingly appear on overcast days.
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- Posted By: Othniel Guimarães <othcosta@hotmail.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 5:39 a.m.
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- I've bought a Jaguar resin detail set to be used in my 1/48 Hasegawa Ki 44. Less to say that it's nice with full detailed interior and mobile parts but the pilot seat came with molded seatbelts: waist and harness. I've been learned that IJA aircraft didn't use the harness so should I remove the harness or are they ok for some Ki 44 ?
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- Re: Ki 44 Tojo Seatbelts
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- Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 20 February 2001, at 7:50 a.m.
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- In Response To: Ki 44 Tojo Seatbelts (Othniel Guimarães)
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- I'm fairly comfortable that the shoulder harness was NOT used, based on no photo or artwork evidence for any JAAF aircraft.
- I have the same set - I removed the shoulder harness and added a bit of detail to the belt. I'm pretty sure that a 2-shoulder harness set-up was never used by either the IJAAF or the IJNAF ( who used a single over the left shoulder across the chest set up.)
- I talked with the gent who did the masters for that set - he had no proof that the harness existed, but he did get the belt fairly right. The Ki-44 has a pretty slim interior photo record.
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- Posted By: Peter <f14peter@yahoo.com>
- Date: Monday, 12 February 2001, at 11:21 p.m.
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- At what point were the yellow ID stipes painted on early Shoki? I want to model an early Ki-44 wondered if the yellow stripes are mandatory. I suppose I'm
- looking for a little variety since so many had them and one without would be a bit different. Since units were already issued with planes when the stripes were ordered, wouldn't some be slower than others about applying, right?
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- Re: Ki-44 yellow ID stripes
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- Posted By: François P. WEILL <frpawe@wanadoo.fr>
- Date: Wednesday, 14 February 2001, at 2:43 a.m.
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- In Response To: Ki-44 yellow ID stripes (Peter)
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- According to a recent post here, a joint Army/Navy agreement was signed during August 1942 about the IFF stripes.
- In fact it was more complete than the reference to IFF stripes and precise some other points about them.
- The IFF stripes, this agreement stated, should be red on uncamouflaged aircraft and yellow on camouflaged ones.
- Because of the different habits the IJAAF and the IJAAF had it was interpreted differently by both services.
- As in pre-camouflage days the IJNAF used bare metal or silver doped aircraft, even the Hairyokushoku painted IJNAF aircraft were considered camouflaged and received the yellow variety. It might explain why - to this day - we have never found hard evidence of any Navy planes bearing red stripes. On the contrary, as Army plane in pre-camouflage days were already finished in a gray-green scheme, it appears that even aircraft in such gray-green finish received red stripes instead of yellow ones (noticeably Ki 27's in home defense duty).
- Concerning the Ki 44, it was delivered to the units in bare metal finish (excepts the fabric covered areas in gray-green) and unit painted. Some evidences exist that even after being camouflaged at unit level, some did bear red IFF stripes instead of yellow ones...
- It is probable that not a single Ki 44 ever received the IFF stripes (red or yellow) before August 1942.
- To know the exact period this disposition came into effect seems a bit difficult. It is known that Navy planes in the Solomon Islands conformed to this order from October 1942 onwards by shot down enemy plane reports from the USAAF or
USN...
- The same agreement also stated that Hinomarus should be carried in six positions (a disposition the Navy already complied with, but Army planes used a four position arrangement since pre-war days). It is likely that the field applied fuselage Hinomarus on Army planes appeared after august 1942 (and were anyway applied at factory level since that date on).
- Another interesting point concerned the possibility to apply Hinomarus on a white square background. Apparently this was tried by the Navy mainly on factory fresh Betties Model 11 in the Solomon Islands but even if this habit was maintained from time to time on some isolated examples of Navy planes, it seems it never gained a real favor. Probably on the ground of being too conspicuous. On the contrary the Army seem to have used this kind of markings, transformed as "bandages" as a home defense unit identification.
- To know exactly when the order to paint IFF stripes was complied with seem to be difficult but it was certainly generalized by early fall 1942. The order as an identification feature was certainly mandatory.
- Considering the date the first pre-production and early models Shokis became operational with the 47th independent Chutai (to become the 47th Sentai thereafter) it is likely only the pre-production and very early models were ever dispensed with the IFF stripes (these models were never represented in kit form to my humble knowledge).
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- Posted By: Elephtheriou George <elgeorge@otenet.gr>
- Date: Wednesday, 27 December 2000, at 6:16 p.m.
-
- Konnichi wa minnasama,
- because it's quite long, we are going to do it in parts.
- Translations from Model Art 329 (Army Fighters):
- Page 6 (colour profiles).
- Upper: Ki44-I Otsu Type 2 single seat fighter Shoki Test produce second plane Dokuritsu Hiko 47
Chutai.
- Socho (I forgot what it means in English) Ito January 1944 Indochina
- Lower: Ki44-II Otsu Type 2 single seat fighter 2 Type Otsu Shoki 47 Hiko Sentai leader of 3 Chutai Captain
Hatano.
- October 1944 Chofu base.
- Page 53:
- 85 Sentai (1943-1944)
- Profile caption: This design is of the Shoki of captain Wakamatsu Yukiyoshi, leader of the second Chutai, at about end of 1943 and it's overall unpainted, silver. The spinner was painted with the colour of the Chutai's leader and the bold line at the back of the fuselage, was painted with the Chutai's colour. The Sentai's leader plane had spinner, belt line and tail marking painted in cobalt (blue). Furthermore, this captain had 2-3 more planes except this one.
- Tail profile caption: This design is of the vertical tail of the Ki44-2 belonging to the 2nd Chutai's leader, Wakamatsu, of the 85 Sentai, active in Canton in 1944.
- (tail's Kanji reads "Waka")
- Page 60, photo caption:
- A Ki44-I Shoki Type 1, flying over Fuji san. In the vertical tail it is written the plane's number, 34. Fuselage Hinomaru has a white bandage.
- Next, we are going to start translating the main article of the Shoki, pages 95-106. They are quite a lot of pages, so we would like to hear if you find it worth translating it. If you are interesting or not. If not, is there something else you would like to see translated? (After Shoki, we are planning to move on to the "Toryu" and "Hien" from the same book).
- As always, any corrections and additions are highly
wellcomed.
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- Re: Ki-44 "SHOKI" TRANSLATIONS PART 1
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- Posted By: Larry deZeng <Hldeziv@aol.com>
- Date: Friday, 29 December 2000, at 12:22 p.m.
-
- Here's a list of JAAF combat units that flew the Ki-44 during the war. The majority of the 10 Hiko Sentai (abbreviated FR)had a mixed complement during the periods indicated, so the number of Ki-44s on strength at any given time could have varied from 10 or 12 up to 40 or so. In several cases only a few (i.e., 4-7 or so) were on hand and this has been so indicated. In each case below, the unit is followed by the time period during which the unit had at least some Ki-44s on strength, and then by where the Sentai was based at that time.
- 9th FR: 5/43 - End; Japan (5/43 - 9/43), Manchuria (9/43 - 2/44), China (2/44 - 8/45).
- 23d FR: 12/44 - End; Japan (12/44 - 8/45) and a detachment on Iwo Jima (12/44 - 2/45).
- 26th FR: 3/45 - End (only a few); Singapore (3/45 - 6/45), Formosa (6/45 - 8/45).
- 29th FR: 2/44 - 12/44; Manchuria, Formosa, China, Philippines (2/44 - 12/44).
- 33d FR: 10/42 - 4/43; China (10/42 - 4/43).
- 64th FR: 9/43 - c.12/43 (only a few); Burma (9/43 - 12/43).
- 70th FR: 5/43 - End; Manchuria and Japan (5/43 - 8/45).
- 87th FR: 11/42 - End; Manchuria and Japan (11/42 - 12/43), NEI, Burma and Malaya (12/43 - 8/45).
- 104th FR: 9/44 - c.4/45; Manchuria (9/44 - 4/45).
- 246th FR: 4/43 - End; Japan (4/43 - 10/44), Formosa and Philippines (10/44 - 3/45), Japan (4/45 - 8/45).
- 47th Independent Flying Squadron: 11/41 - c.10/43 (prototypes only); French Indochina, Malaya and Burma (11/41 - 4/42), Japan (4/42 - 10/43).
- 1st Field Replacement Flying Unit: 11/44 - End; Singapore (11/44 - 8/45).
- Some of the fighter operational training units (Rensei Hikotai) and several school units also had some Ki-44s.
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- Ki-44 "SHOKI" TRANSLATIONS PART 1
-
- Posted By: Elephtheriou George <elgeorge@otenet.gr>
Date: Wednesday, 27 December 2000, at 6:16 p.m.
-
- Konnichi wa minnasama,
because it's quite long, we are going to do it in parts.
Translations from Model Art 329 (Army Fighters):
- Page 6 (colour profiles).
Upper: Ki44-I Otsu Type 2 single seat fighter Shoki Test produce second plane Dokuritsu Hiko 47 Chutai.
Socho (I forgot what it means in English) Ito January 1944 Indochina
- Lower: Ki44-II Otsu Type 2 single seat fighter 2 Type Otsu Shoki 47 Hiko Sentai leader of 3 Chutai Captain Hatano.
October 1944 Chofu base.
- Page 53:
85 Sentai (1943-1944)
Profile caption: This design is of the Shoki of captain Wakamatsu Yukiyoshi, leader of the second Chutai, at about end of 1943 and it's overall unpainted, silver. The spinner was painted with the colour of the Chutai's leader and the bold line at the back of the fuselage, was painted with the Chutai's colour. The Sentai's leader plane had spinner, belt line and tail marking painted in cobalt (blue). Furthermore, this captain had 2-3 more planes except this one.
- Tail profile caption: This design is of the vertical tail of the Ki44-2 belonging to the 2nd Chutai's leader, Wakamatsu, of the 85 Sentai, active in Canton in 1944.
(tail's Kanji reads "Waka")
- Page 60, photo caption:
A Ki44-I Shoki Type 1, flying over Fuji san. In the vertical tail it is written the plane's number, 34. Fuselage Hinomaru has a white bandage.
- Next, we are going to start translating the main article of the Shoki, pages 95-106. They are quite a lot of pages, so we would like to hear if you find it worth translating it. If you are interesting or not. If not, is there something else you would like to see translated? (After Shoki, we are planning to move on to the "Toryu" and "Hien" from the same book).
As always, any corrections and additions are highly wellcomed.
-
- Re: Ki-44 "SHOKI" TRANSLATIONS PART 1
-
- Posted By: Jim Broshot <jbroshot@socket.net>
Date: Thursday, 28 December 2000, at 10:47 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44 "SHOKI" TRANSLATIONS PART 1
(Elephtheriou George)
-
- Anything in this book on order of battle detail?
- Which units flew the Shoki and when and where?
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- Re: Ki-44 "SHOKI" TRANSLATIONS PART 1
-
- Posted By: Larry deZeng <Hldeziv@aol.com>
Date: Friday, 29 December 2000, at 12:22 p.m.
-
- In Response To: (Jim Broshot)
-
- Here's a list of JAAF combat units that flew the Ki-44 during the war. The majority of the 10 Hiko Sentai (abbreviated FR)had a mixed complement during the periods indicated, so the number of Ki-44s on strength at any given time could have varied from 10 or 12 up to 40 or so. In several cases only a few (i.e., 4-7 or so) were on hand and this has been so indicated. In each case below, the unit is followed by the time period during which the unit had at least some Ki-44s on strength, and then by where the Sentai was based at that time.
- 9th FR: 5/43 - End; Japan (5/43 - 9/43), Manchuria (9/43 - 2/44), China (2/44 - 8/45).
23d FR: 12/44 - End; Japan (12/44 - 8/45) and a detachment on Iwo Jima (12/44 - 2/45).
26th FR: 3/45 - End (only a few); Singapore (3/45 - 6/45), Formosa (6/45 - 8/45).
29th FR: 2/44 - 12/44; Manchuria, Formosa, China, Philippines (2/44 - 12/44).
33d FR: 10/42 - 4/43; China (10/42 - 4/43).
64th FR: 9/43 - c.12/43 (only a few); Burma (9/43 - 12/43).
70th FR: 5/43 - End; Manchuria and Japan (5/43 - 8/45).
87th FR: 11/42 - End; Manchuria and Japan (11/42 - 12/43), NEI, Burma and Malaya (12/43 - 8/45).
104th FR: 9/44 - c.4/45; Manchuria (9/44 - 4/45).
246th FR: 4/43 - End; Japan (4/43 - 10/44), Formosa and Philippines (10/44 - 3/45), Japan (4/45 - 8/45).
- 47th Independent Flying Squadron: 11/41 - c.10/43 (prototypes only); French Indochina, Malaya and Burma (11/41 - 4/42), Japan (4/42 - 10/43).
- 1st Field Replacement Flying Unit: 11/44 - End; Singapore (11/44 - 8/45).
- Some of the fighter operational training units (Rensei Hikotai) and several school units also had some Ki-44s.
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- Posted By: Jeff <chipdog@fuse.net>
Date: Sunday, 3 December 2000, at 3:25 p.m.
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- I am building the !/48 scale kit and noticed the upper wings do not completely cover the lower wings at the flaps. Is this correct as it seems to be molded that way and not a mistake?
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- Re: Hasegawa Tojo
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- Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com>
Date: Sunday, 3 December 2000, at 9:26 p.m.
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- In Response To: Hasegawa Tojo (Jeff)
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- You may alreday have noticed this, but while we are on the subject of wing control surfaces, the Hasegawa Tojo's aileron line on the upper surface is located at the same location as the line of the bottom which is not correct. The surface area of the aileron on the top surface should be smaller than on the bottom surface. Check plans again and see what I mean.
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- Re: Hasegawa Tojo
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- Posted By: Dan Salamone <heroncreek@qwest.net>
Date: Monday, 4 December 2000, at 3:55 p.m.
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- In Response To: (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
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- You are correct- the Ki-43 and Ki-84 also had similar ailerons as well and the Fine Molds Oscar and Hasegawa Frank kits get it right.........
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- Re: Hasegawa Tojo
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- Posted By: Ed Esposito <EEML@home.com>
Date: Sunday, 3 December 2000, at 4:18 p.m.
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- In Response To: Hasegawa Tojo (Jeff)
-
- Yes, that's correct. The so-called "combat flaps" on the Ki-44, when closed, overlapped slightly the inboard trailing edge of the upper wing, progressively more so moving from outboard to inboard. Even the old Otaki/Arii kit represented this feature pretty well.
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- Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
Date: Monday, 13 November 2000, at 10:20 p.m.
-
- George & I were chating about the fate of the Ki-44 Shokis that found there way into the US after the war. Since sadly, no airframes are extant today, it is obvious that all were eventually committed to the smelter after serving there testing/evaluation/display purposes. Be that as it may, the question arose as to how many Ki-44s were brought to the US? Does anyone have numbers on this?
- The best I can come up with is from Robert Mikesh's book "Broken Wings of the Samurai." From that source, it would appear that at least 4 were slated to come to the US, 2 of which actually made it. BWotS states there were 3 aircraft carriers involved with post war delivery of Japanese a/c to the US:
1) USS Barnes (CVE-20) left Japan 16 November 1945, (with 45 a/c... 2 were Ki-44s).
2) USS Core (CVE-13) left Japan later that same November.
3) USS Bogue (CVE-9) left Japan 26 December 1945.
* The "Emily" that ended up in the US came aboard the US Navy seaplane tender Cumberland Sound.
- Does anyone have more information on just how many Shokis made it to the US?
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: Elephtheriou George <elgeorge@otenet.gr>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 3:10 a.m.
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- In Response To: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Don Marsh)
-
- nothing to do with the subject but I guess Don will like it.
- In the "Shinmeikai kanwa jiten" (new and easy to use Kanji Japanese Dictionary) by Sanseido 1987 3rd edition, under the word "Shoki", there is the following:
"Shoki" is the name of an epidemic repellent God. At the age of T'ang dinasty in China, a person called Genshu saw a dream in which a God drew a sword and took out a small demon ("Oni" in Japanese). This God is called "Shoki". A Chinese painter made a paint of this.
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: John Acosta <xmdjna@cs.com>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 1:20 a.m.
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- In Response To: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Don Marsh)
-
- Been a little too busy to post anything lately, but I couldn't let this question pass without this . . .
- "I have a rather personal postscript to the Ki-44 story. In July of 1992, I happened to be riding my bicycle along the lakefront here in Chicago. I was on my way to attend the Air and Water Show, which is held here every year. While riding past Meigs Field near McCormick Place on the lakefront, I happened to looked over to the airfield to see what kind of airplanes were sitting there. I couldn't believe my eyes! Parked over there was a Ki-44 "Tojo", large as life! Had to be a Tojo --- the oversize engine and the small tail were unmistakable! The camouflage scheme was green overall, and the red "meatball" Japanese national insignia could readily be seen. Where did this Tojo come from? I had always thought that all the Ki-44s which survived the war had been scrapped soon afterwards. Did some warbird buff get hold of a derelict Tojo and beautifully restore it to pristine condition? Or was I only fooled by an AT-6 Texan or a BT-13 Valiant modified and made up to look like a Tojo? Very good job, if so! Can anyone help me out?"
- Check out the website I listed which this was posted on.
- Perhaps this is a real sighting . . . or?
- Link: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki44.html#RTFToC3
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 4:22 p.m.
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- In Response To: Re: Devil-Quellers in th US? (John Acosta)
-
- Due to the location and the statement 'overall green' I am wondering if it was the EAA's late model, short wing Oscar now on display at Oshkosh? If you check with them it should be easy to establish if their plane was sent to Chicago in'92 for some reason. BTW the Boston Museum of Fine Arts makes a great repro casting of a Shoki netsuke with a big bag of demons over his shoulder. Some of them are trying to escape through various holes in the bag. He's about 1/32nd scale. One question for you. Are you the guy who first posted the URL for armyradio.com on the newsgroup?
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: John Acosta <xmdjna@cs.com>
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 2:22 a.m.
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- In Response To: Re: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Greg Springer)
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- Yes, I posted the URL for the radios after I found the site while just nosing around on the internet. It's really a fantastic site.
- By the way now you've got my curiousity up about Shoki netsuke. I do have a book with photographs of the two warrior sentries at the South Gate of the Todaiji Temple at Nara - the two Kongo-rikishi (Thunderbolt Carriers). Quite frightful beings!!
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 3:27 p.m.
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- In Response To: Re: Devil-Quellers in th US? (John Acosta)
-
- Of the 1,225 Ki-44s built not one airframe is extant. None in storage (that I know of); not even in a museum some where, and certainly none flying. My guess is if that's what it was (or was suppose to look like), if it flew it was probably a T-6 mock-up. Or, if it didn't fly it may have been a full scale fiberglass mock-up.
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: Randy
Date: Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 8:16 p.m.
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- In Response To: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Don Marsh)
-
- Not to avoid your question but a little note on the beautiful and underestimated
Shoki. The reason no Ki-44s were preserved was because the only Japanese fighter 'recognized' was, of course, the Zero.
And since this "other" single-engined monoplane fighter -- the Shoki -- was not a Zero, it could go. Hence, all the Ki-44s went to the scrap heap; what a shame, what a plane!
This info is straight from Ed Maloney, who should know. And, incidentally, the only Zero in the world today which flies with a Sakae was in the process of being cut up -- literally -- when Ed showed up with the dough. Yes, it was that close....
- Think about it!
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- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
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- Posted By: Tim Hortman <thortman@epix.net>
Date: Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 7:01 p.m.
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- In Response To: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Don Marsh)
-
- In the book WAR PRIZES, (by Phil Butler ISBN 0 904597 86 5) there is mention of 2 Ki-44's brought to the US aboard USS Barnes 3 Nov 1945. Both aircraft were captured at Kashiwa (Tachikawa military airfield) and thought to be serial numbers 1677 & 1841. Both aircraft were "on the books" into 1946, but no further record exists after 1949. I do recommend this book, as it has a great amount of useful info!~
-
- Re: Devil-Quellers in th US?
-
- Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
Date: Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 3:40 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Devil-Quellers in th US? (Tim
Hortman)
-
- While I don't have this book, I know it is an important and wonderful book. I'm going to have to pick up a copy of that soon. Thanks for the info. Btw, the serial numbers you site from War Prizes are the same that Robert Mikesh gives as being from the USS Barnes inventory list (same date: 3 November 1945).
- I'm getting the feeling that these were the only two Shokis to make the journey to the US.
-
-
- Posted By: Richard S. Longenecker <DiggerSL@aol.com>
- Date: Wednesday, 19 July 2000, at 6:40 p.m.
-
- Did any Ki44's operate in New Guinea? If so what scheme(s) and or markings were applied?
- Any wrecks found? Eyewitness accounts? After action reports?
-
- Re: Ki 44's in New Guinea ?
-
- Posted By: Allan Alsleben <Wildcat42@AOL.com>
- Date: Saturday, 22 July 2000, at 4:15 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki 44's in New Guinea ? (Richard S.
Longenecker)
-
- Sorry, but no Ki 44 flew with the 6th Air Division. As of April 15th 1944, the only Air Regiments left were:
- 33rd, 63rd, 77th and 248 in Ki-43 Oscar's and 68th, 78th in Ki-61 Tony's.
- These were the only Fighter Regiments in New Guinea at that time. The others
that left, and I believe they were the 1st and the 11th, also flew Ki-43.
-
- Re: Ki 44's in New Guinea ?
-
- Posted By: Rick Dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
- Date: Tuesday, 25 July 2000, at 9:14 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki 44's in New Guinea ? (Allan
Alsleben)
-
- I think the answer is an unequivocal no. I have pretty complete copies of the
resupply of aircraft in New Guinea during early 1944 and the only SSF's are Ki
43's and Ki 61's. The 7th Air Div also operated in New Guinea for a while in
1943. Earlier Fighter units that had withdrawn included (in addition to the 1st and 11th): the 24th and the 59th both with Ki 43-II's. The 1st and 11th
flew Mark I's. The twin engine Ki-45 also operated over New Guinea. I vote no because the Ki 44 was not unit equipement for any of the units
operating in the theater. There are no crash reports or captures of Ki 44's.
There is no documentary evidence that I am aware of (other than Allied pilot
identifications but these are the same guys reporting Tonys when they are seeing Zekes and Judys plus seeing Zekes over Wewak and Oscars in places where
there are none!).Finally while a unit operating in a theater where an aircraft
is operational may have a few on strength in addition to its primary
equipement, it makes no sense logistically to send a few aircraft to theater
where there is no maintenance or supply base for the aircraft. The JAAF already had enough problems in this regard! Whew, with that out we can all
shrug and have our own opinions!
-
- Re: Ki 44's in New Guinea ?
-
- Posted By: Ryan Boerema <ryann1k2j@aol.com>
- Date: Saturday, 22 July 2000, at 9:21 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki 44's in New Guinea ? (Allan
Alsleben)
-
- Tojos were reported as sighted over Rabaul and elsewhere, but there's no paper
evidence of them being posted any closer than the Balikpapan area, where the
- 87th sentai was sent to protect the oil fields. Of course, elsewhere, the
64th, an Oscar sentai, had a couple of Ki-44s along with their Ki-43s for interception purposes. Whether this happened as well with the sentai in New
Guinea can best be answered with a Gallic shrug of the shoulders. Who knows?
-
-
- Posted By: Fernando de Moraes <fernando@sebraerj.com.br>
- Date: Tuesday, 9 May 2000, at 10:46 a.m.
-
- My brother and me we are building a Hasegawa Ki 44 Tojo in 1/48 scale and we
have some doubts. The interior colour: is it yellow-green or green? And the instrument panel; is
it black? And the wheel compartiment, wich colour is it? Aotake?
-
- Re: Ki 44 Tojo colours
-
- Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>
- Date: Tuesday, 9 May 2000, at 4:00 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki 44 Tojo colours (Fernando de
Moraes)
-
- Your questions have been echoed by many here, Pete Chalmers and myself come to
mind as far as the cockpit colors and instrument panel. I think it's a rather
- safe assumption(but an assumption nonetheless) that the gear bays were aotake,
or maybe just bare natural metal. Wish I could have given you a definitive
- answer- if the Ki-44 was like the Ki-84, the cockpit may have been
NMF, aotake or even a green color. Enjoy the model!
-
-
- Posted By: Keith Dickson <deagleboy@hotmail.com>
- Date: Wednesday, 3 May 2000, at 5:25 p.m.
-
- I have a question for anyone familiar with the Arii/Otaki Ki-44. Which tail
emblem goes with with aircraft? I've seen references with the #2 a/c having the red tail flash and also with the yellow tail flash. Same with the #11 a/c,
I've seen pictures and drawings if the kit wearing either color...I don't know
which color is accurate for each aircraft. I have never seen a real photo of
either one, all I have to go by is the drawings and photos of this kit or the
Hasegawa KI-44 with similar markings (see picture from Hobbyweb.com) Any information would be helpful...I would rather have an accurate model than one
with complimentary colors.
-
-
- Posted By: Fred DeGroff <RedFred1@aol.com>
- Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 6:38 p.m.
-
- I am continually amazed at the depth of knowledge available on these
websites...I am truly humbled. Being a neophyte Japanese Aircraft devotee, I have recently become enamored
with round engines and miles of glass!! I am hoping that some of you can help
me with Ki-44 color schemes...in particular I am interested in the night fighter scheme depicted in Rene Francillon's book. I would like to know of any
sources of photo's, drawings, articles, etc that may further document Ki-44
- night fighters. Thanks in advance for your consideration.
-
-
- Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>
- Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 10:33 p.m.
-
- Just saw on the Hasegawa website that later this month they will release the
1/48 Ki-44 in the markings of the 70th Sentai, as flown by Makoto Ogawa. Can't
- recall if they released this kit with these markings before- link below takes
you to page with artwork. BTW, they are also releasing the 1/48 A6M2 kit this
month in the markings of the Oita NAG. Artwork is not up yet, but I am hoping
that it will be one of the birds with dark green upper surfaces/orange lower
surfaces. http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/2000.3new/09336.htm
-
-
- Posted By: Drew Oliver <MeP1100@Aol.Com>
- Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:20 p.m.
-
- I'm new to the WW II Japanese aircraft modeling relm and I just got the ARII
Ki-44. I'm wondering what color the cockpit should be. I've been looking
- through some of the posting here and I'm seeing the Atoke color being the
primary color used on most JAAF aircraft. Is this true?, or are there other colors?
-
- Re: Ki-44 Interior Colors
-
- Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>
- Date: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 4:48 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44 Interior Colors (Drew Oliver)
-
- Welcome to Japanese aircraft and the boards! The interior color of the Ki-44
is a bit of a mystery still to all of us I'm afraid to say, but your options
- would be either:
- 1. Aotake
- 2. Natural metal finish
- 3. Some sort of "interior" green
- Many of us are eagerly awaiting the upcoming book on Japanese aircraft
interiors from Robert Mikesh and hope there may be some type of answer in that
publication. As an example on a later aircraft, the Ki-84, sources and data indicate that in all probability all 3 above options I listed occured in the
cockpit of the Hayate. If it were me, I'd go with either aotake or the interior green on the Ki-44- and as usual per many Japanese cockpits both
colors were seen on different components in the same aircraft. I hope this helps, I have also included a link to the FAQ page as it goes pretty deep into
explaining the various colors seen and during which periods(not specifically
on the Shoki though). Enjoy the model,
-
-
- Posted By: D. Anderson <2814823733@home.com>
- Date: Monday, 9 August 1999, at 12:28 p.m.
-
- I recently purchased the nice Hasegawa 1/48 kit of the Ki-44-II Ko. Not bad at
all. Looking over my references, scanty as they are, and seeing that my Aeromaster Ki-44 sheet only has markings for later Ki-44s, I decided to build
paint version #1, the aircraft of Capt. Yukiyoshi Wakamatsu in China in 1943.
- The instructions call for a sprayed-green blotch over natural metal. But,
consulting Harvey Low's FSM article on JAAF colours, I learn that in the China/Burma theatre it was possible to see brown or olive drab instead of
jungle green. Would this apply to Wakamatsu's Ki-44? In other words, would it
be more accurate to spray blotches of brown or olive drab over the metal, instead of "Nakajima" green? To complicate matters further, Thorpe says that
this aircraft should be gray blotches sprayed over light green. But I seem to
recall reading (probably here) that Ki-44s were initially issued in metal, not
overall light green.
-
- Re: Ki-44: Yukiyoshi Wakamatsu
-
- Posted By: Tennessee Katsuta <kinson-garments@on.aibn.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 10 August 1999, at 7:22 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44: Yukiyoshi Wakamatsu (D. Anderson)
-
- According to Model Art January 1984, Ki44 belonging to 85th sentai had several
- variations in their camo scheme such as:
- 1. Brown blotches on solid green.
- 2. Blotches of green and brown.
- 3. Blotches/squiggles of green.
- These were applied on top of bare metal.
- There is a drawing of Wakamatsu's Ki44 II ko in Maru Mechanic, and according
- to the drawing, this Ki44 is painted solid green with brown blotches. The
- undersurface is bare metal.
-
- Re: Ki-44: Yukiyoshi Wakamatsu
-
- Posted By: Tennessee Katsuta <Kinson-garments@on.aibn.com>
- Date: Monday, 16 August 1999, at 9:46 p.m.
-
- Here's more info on Wakamatsu's Ki44. The same photo seen in page 40 of FAOW
also appears in Model Art No.329. The caption does not state to whom this
A.C. belonged to, but it suggests that this A.C. was painted in green AND brown
mottle(it does not say if the under surface was NMF or IJA grey). It also says
- that DARK BLUE MOTTLE is a possibility. The caption in FAOW suggests that this
A.C. belonged to Wakamatsu, but it does not say anything about its camo
- scheme. Also, in Maru Mechanic, there are drawings of two other aircraft
supposidly flown by Wakamatsu. One is the A.C. I mentioned before, a Ki44 II
Ko painted solid green upper surface with brown mottle. There is a red fuselage band with white edge. There is a "half arrow" tail marking in red
with white edge. Also, a kanji "WAKA" is painted on the tail, which stands for
"Wakamatsu." The spinner is red. The fuse hinomaru has a white edge. The other
aircraft (Ki44 II Ko) is overall NMF with red fuselage band and red "triple chevron" on the tail. The spinner is red. There is no white edge on the
hinomarus. Are you confused yet?
-
-
- Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>
- Date: Saturday, 17 April 1999, at 12:41 p.m.
-
- One more question about an aircraft portrayed in Model Art #329..... Page 104,
top has a profile of a Ki-44 from the 85th Sentai. The translation says that
the fuselage band, and arrow marking on the tail, as well as the spinner, were
painted "cobalt blue". It also speaks about there being an anti-glare panel, I
know that was a point of contention on the other aircraft I asked about last
week. Can anybody confirm that these markings were blue, and maybe if this aircraft appears in a photo in another publication? Last thing- it is also
mentioned that this aircraft was not NMF with a mottle of green or brown, but
that the overall base color was "sky", "close to grey-blue"..... any ideas here on either the translation, or evidence as far as relics, etc. showing
this as true?
-
- Re: Ki-44 colors/markings revisited
-
- Posted By: Tennessee Katsuta <kinson-garments@on.aibn.com>
- Date: Saturday, 17 April 1999, at 3:22 p.m.
-
- The caption says the upper surface is painted in dark green and dark brown
mottle, with the under surface in blue-grey close to sky colour. It doesn't say what colour was painted under the mottles. The sentai marking, and the
fuselage band are cobalt blue with white edge on the band. The spinner was cobalt blue. This particular aircraft was flown by the seitai leader. The
aircraft flown by the chutai leader had the sentai marking, fuselage band, and
the spinner painted in their respective chutai colours. It also says that there were variations in the design of the sentai marking. BTW, under surface
is pronounced KAMEN, and outersurface is pronounced GEMEN.
-
-
- Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>
- Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 7:14 a.m.
-
- I have been reading through my translation of Model art $329 that I bought
from AvUsk, and have some questions on Shoki colors... The translation speaks
- of a "tea grey" color used as a mottle on uppersurfaces, mainly aircraft used
in the Phillipines late '44 or so. I am wondering about 2 things here: 1. Is "tea grey" a poor translation, or the persons' take on the Japanese
term? 2. Are there color photos, or relics, that show brown was used often as a top
color on mottle schemes- if so, was it also used with greens? The aircraft I am interested in particular is shown in a drawing on the bottom
of page 102, a Shoki from the 246th Sentai with what the translation describes
as a yellow spinner with red spiral.....
-
- Re: Ki-44 camouflage colors/Army Browns
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 10:03 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44 camouflage colors (Dan Salamone)
-
- Japanese browns are, for the moment, elusive. The few relic samples
encountered range from FS-30118/33105 on Mitsubishi Ki 67s and Kawasaki Ki 45s
to FS-30095/30097 reportedly on Nakajima aircraft. The later have NOT been substantiated. Other reports indicate that the Tojos encountered at Clark
Field were painted the same color as the propeller blades (?). Another descriptor used was "Japanese Army helmet brown." That Kawasaki, Nakajima, and
Mitsubishi painted some IJA aircraft in brown at the factory during 1944 is not the question, but the exact hue is. Most of these aircraft finished in
this color appear to have been destined for use in the Philippines.
-
- Re: Ki-44 camouflage colors
-
- Posted By: Tennessee Katsuta <kinson-garments@on.aibn.com>
- Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 6:40 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44 camouflage colors (Dan Salamone)
-
- I think I can solve the mystery. The colour in question is
CHA-HAI-SHOKU which actually means brown-gray. The term CHA can mean "tea" or "brown", but in this
case, it means "brown." Interesting fact is that when the word CHA is used to
describe the colour, it has nothing to do with the colour of Japanese green tea. It just means brown. So what the heck is "brown-gray?" I have the Model
art book, but it doesn't seem to have the colour chip for "brown-gray." However, on pages 38 and 39, they state that there were various shades of
brown, including "chocolate colour." Then they go on describing "chocolate
colour" as "dark brown with some grey in it." So from this, one can deduce
that CHA-HAI-SHOKU="brown-grey"="chocolate colour." Confusing, eh? (*__*)
Therefore, for this CHA-HAI-SHOKU, I suggest using dark brown as a base
colour, and add a little grey until it matches to the colour of your favourite
chocolate bar(make sure it's pure chocolate and not milk chocolate)!
-
- Re: Shoki interior colors?
-
- Posted By: Don N. <nelsondon@earthlink.net>
- Date: Monday, 25 January 1999, at 6:29 p.m.
-
- Now on to Tojo cockpits. The first rule about IJA cockpit colors is that there
is no rule. Instrument Panels: Various reliable sources indicate the panels were any of
- the following colors: Black; Dk Grey (possibly weathered black?); and
"Interior" Green, which has been described variously as medium to dark shades
of olive to blue-green. By blue-green, I mean a green that has more blue than
olive in its appearance, for example, like FS 34079 (the dark green used on Viet-Nam era USAF planes.)
- Seat: As above. Accessories: Radios, oxygen bottles, etc. Normally black.
Joy Stick Grip: Black from the factory but the paint often times wore off leaving a bare aluminum finish with flecks of stubborn black paint remaining.
Interior walls, etc: Another example of no rules. Depending on the period, these areas were either painted or left unpainted. Unpainted was common toward
the end of the war, so basically, paint it a natural aluminum color in that case and no one can really argue with you. Assuming the panels were painted,
we are presented with a variety of choices. (1) Leave it a natural aluminum color and assume it was painted with a clear "varnish". (2) A thinly applied
coat of olive green paint. This could range from opaque to a "tinted" varnish
effect which means you can paint it a solid olive green color, or even mix your own "olive green metal flake" to simulate the tinted clear varnish
effect. The olive green was basic a medium shade of olive green probably something like FS 34102, though it could be lighter, and rarely, darker. It
could also vary in hue from a quite yellowish olive to a fairly bluish green
- as well. (3) Same as (2) above, but replace olive green with a rather pure
medium to dark blue. My studies seem to suggest the blue color was quite rare.
In fact, it seems you couldn't buy a Zero kit without being told the interior
surfaces were all this metallic blue color (actually a translucent blue paint
over natural aluminum), but it seems the blue color too was not as common as
once believed, though ti seems to show up more on IJN aircraft than IJA ones.
Upper deck: This is the area under the canopy, but still on top of the fuselag
proper. Finish these areas in either the uppersurface scheme, or else a dark
cockpit color or black.
-
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Monday, 21 August 2000, at 2:34 p.m.
-
- A relic sample, allegedly souvenired at Clark Field in February 1944, has been analyzed. The data plate and skin fragment is from a Nakajima Ki-44 Tojo s/n 2171. The brown paint on the un-primered aluminum surface was applied very thinly and the underlying aluminum makes the brown appear somewhat lighter than it might have been if layered more thickly.
- There is no exact color match on the FS 595B color fan, but it is slightly darker than FS-20122. The Munsell match is 7.5 YR 4/2. There is increasing evidence that the Nakajima and Kawasaki aircraft companies factory applied a solid brown camouflage on many of their production fighter aircraft (Ki-44 and Ki-45) during mid to late 1944. Mitsubishi appears to have used this scheme on the Ki-67 bomber as well.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 7:14 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Jim:
- I looked on my 595B fan ( July 1994 ) - no 20122 ! But it IS on my 595A fan, blade 24 ( 1984 ). Slightly darker and less red than 20117, which is on both. The Clark pic looks fairly true to those colors,
FWIW.
- You can just see the grey painted serial btw. the stab. and the Hinomaru on the Ki-44, which is consistent with the serial painting on Ki-84 and Ki-44 pics I've seen in the Ki-44 and Ki-84 FAOW's and other references - some comfort to me in using the color on either aircraft ( and it does look good on the late Ki-43's. )
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Wednesday, 23 August 2000, at 5:45 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Pete
Chalmers)
-
- Hi Pete
- You are correct! The color sample, FS-20122) appears in the FS-595B color fan printed in 1989 (blade no.21) but not in the one printed July 1994. I would suggest another close match, FS-20140, from the July 1994 edition and is found on blade no.22. However, the relic I examined appeared a bit darker.
- The problem with color photography, which is second best to having the sample of color in front of you, are the variations caused by:
- 1) Technical issues at the time of photography (lighting conditions, camera settings, film type and film speed
- 2) Film processing and subsequent printing issues (I get different quality of prints everytime I send my color negs out).
- 3) Printing/electronic technical issues when the print is reproduced in publications or through the electronic media.
- The photograph you are looking at is from an original Kodachrome slide; from which an internegative was made; subsequently printed in a Japanese magazine; electronically scanned; and, finally, received by over 100,000 monitors (and maybe printed again by 57 varieties of printers)!!!
- Color photography is great for answering certain questions (e.g. were the code numerals on the tail yellow or red?), but not as good as having a sample of the real thing.
- I truly appreciate your posting the image from Mark's site (I had forgotten about it!) because it does show tangible evidence that the IJAAF used this color on these aircraft.
- P.S. Did you notice that the third aircraft is a Ki-45 in hairyokushoku finish (albeit very washed out in the color processing) with a darker olive-green field-applied mottling (as is the fifth aircraft, a Ki-48 Lily from the 208 FR); and that the fourth aircraft illustrates the red color of No.2 hiko chutai of 27 FR on a brown finish very nicely. Also note that someone already has put some rounds into the hinomaru of the Ki-45. Its serial number (4132 on the original slide) may be seen in black above and to the right of the open access panel.
- Overall, this is a superb photo and thank you again for posting it.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!
-
- Posted By: Graham Boak <graham@boak98.freeserve.co.uk>
- Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 2:21 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Sorry, but, bearing in mind all that James says about the problems of photo-reproduction, I cannot see how this photo shows a brown.
- Look at the way the colours of the foliage have gone from green to brown, look at the flesh tones,.....surely these aircraft are in olive green with a "brown" effect due to age/reproduction/whatever.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!
-
- Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>
- Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 10:18 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not! (Graham
Boak)
-
- The scanned copy has drifted from the Kokufan repro. which has drifted from the original Kodachrome, and there is a lot of color corruption around the borders, BUT:
- The USN officer is wearing typical wash khakis with a USMC cap and a "pisscutter" USN cap emblem, and has a pretty good tan - skin, cap, and uniform tones are close enough and believable.
- Picture taken in the summer of '45 - it can be pretty scorching in the P.I. in the summer, especially inland on Luzon.
- ( As a Naval officer, I spent a lot of time in the P.I. in 1967-68 at both Clark and Cubi Point - the grass and foliage colors on the tree tops are not too far off. )
- Also, the green camo. and red and yellow look pretty sharp and serve as another test of the brown shade.
- Coupled with Jim's relic info., I'm comfortable with the brown.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 4:52 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not! (Graham
Boak)
-
- Hi Graham
- What you say is very true, but also note that the third aircraft has a green mottling painted on it. While I cannot explain the grass color (maybe it is dead!!!) the trees appear dark green.
- This particular print did pick up some of the greens. True, the foreground is very distorted in color on the original slide due, I think, to being light struck or age. Note the cloudy blue tint. None of these colors are right on, but I do believe that the first two aircraft and fourth aircraft are a shade of brown; that the third has a light color over-painted with a mottling of an olive-green shade; that the reds are red; and the yellows are yellow.
FWIW!
- Additional problems, highlighted by these color discussions, include metamerism and semantics. For example, there are shades of U.S.so-called "olive drab" which have a brown tone and shades which have a definite green tone depending on variations in paint formula, weathering, lighting conditions, and individual perceptions!
- More important to me than this photo are the six to ten samples I have analyzed of actual pieces from various Japanese aircraft captured in the Philippines during this time period. Some of the relics from Ki-44s, Ki-45s and a Ki-67 appear to me to be what I call "brown."
- Thank you for your feedback.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>
- Date: Wednesday, 23 August 2000, at 7:01 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Hi Gents,
- When I purchased my 595B fan deck about 2 years ago they included a 2 X 3 inch chip of 20122 along with it.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown *PIC*
-
- Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 12:39 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- . . . and for those of you who haven't seen it:
- http://www.marksindex.com/aviation/temp/tojo_1.jpg
- Pete Chalmers
- N.B. The Kawasaki Ki-45 in the foreground is s/n 4132 and the second aircraft is Nakajima Ki-44 s/n 2186, both captured at Clark Field P.I. Note the hinomaru have been overpainted blue to prevent damage from "friendly fire," and in anticipation of repair and evaluation by
T.A.I.U.
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mang521092@aol.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 1:16 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Jim,
- Any definitive proof for the brown Oscar Is?
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 5:31 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Mitch Inkster)
-
- Mitch
- The only un-weathered relics I have analyzed from the Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar (5-6 different ones from CBI and New Guinea) have been various shades of dark green or dark olive-green (none I would call a "brown"). The overall brown color has been primarily documented as a factory color application on aircraft used in the Philippines during late 1944 to February 1945. It was also found on one sample of a Kawasaki Ki-100 recovered in Japan after the war. OWAKI-san may have more material on this subject.
- Tachikawa may have built its Ki-43s with this color, but I have no samples from Tachikawa production.
- Rob GRAHAM has a sample of a very weathered Oscar skin from Oscar carcasses recovered in the '90s by the Russians in the Kuriles. From what I recall, it too had some green and evidence of gray-green
(hairyokushoku).
- IHTH
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown
-
- Posted By: Mike Yeo <spyder355@hotmail.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 5:44 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Jim,
- could there be a chance this the same brown used on the 47th Dokuritsu Chutais Ki-44 pre-production aircraft used in Malaya in early 42?
-
- Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown/47 Fc
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 6:34 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Mike
Yeo)
-
- Mike
- Unfortunately all we have to go on are the artists' speculations as to the field-applied hue of the early prototype and preproduction Ki-44s flown by the No. 47 dokuristsu hiko chutai (Fc) based in French Indochina. Two or three of these aircraft were from the first three or four prototypes (s/n 4401-4404). It is higly probable that they were painted gray-green overall (hairyokushoku) at the factory. This probability is based on established factory practice. ("Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki In JAAF Service," BUESCHEL, Schiffer:1996, p.p.3-4 & 6-8 photo captions based on research by James I. LONG)
- The remainder of the pre-production prototypes were natural metal (s/n 4404-4410). The many publicity photographs taken of the 47 Fc in Indochina/Malaya indicate that a coat of field-applied camouflage (one or two colors?) was applied on the upper surfaces. It would be pure speculation as to the hue, but NOHARA-san believes it was the standard IJA equipment (helmets, trucks, etc) olive-brown. But, quien
sabe?
- IHTH