-
-
- Posted By: EMP_204_Rik
<mailto:harlow@inreach.com?subject=IJN Ranking System *PIC*>
Date: Monday, 31 July 2000, at 11:03 p.m.
-
- Hello All,
I am in need of a URL or any information about the IJN system of ranking.
I am the CO of a Combat Flight Simulator Squadron. The 204th IJN. I have
been informed that our ranking system may be JAAF. I need to correct this
if it is true.
I would appreciate any help here. Please E-Mail me any Info you may have.
"Bows Low"
Taisa Rik 204th IJN CO
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: Mark E. Horan
<mailto:mhoran@snet.net?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 8:23 a.m.
-
- In Response To: IJN Ranking System *PIC* (EMP_204_Rik)
-
- I don't pretend to be an expert on
the IJN, but I do know the ranks of the aircrew in the IJN in 1941-42.
- From lowest to highest:
- Sea3c
Sea2c
Sea1c
PO3c
PO2c
PO1c
WO
Ens
Lt(jg)
Lt
Lt.Cdr.
Cdr.
- It was uncommon for a squadron to
contain any personnel of higher rank than Lt., thus those with ranks
higher seldom fly on anything near a regular basis.
- While most non-american air
services contained many non-officer pilots, in the IJN, this was carried
to the extreme with rating pilots being the predominant feature on the
roster. Most squadrons had only two to four commissioned officers (Ens and
above) aircrew, though some went as high as six. Generally, squadrons had
1-2 officers per chutai, with Kansen and Kanbaku having 2-3 chutai's,
while Kanko had three.
- Also, the IJN was like the Fleet
Air Arm and Luftwaffe in that the plane commander in multi-place aircraft
was often NOT the pilot. Likewise, more often than not, the unit commander
was a non-pilot.
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: David_Aiken
<mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 9:30 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJN Ranking
System (Mark E. Horan)
-
- Aloha Mark,
Alebit, the rank of seaman first class and airman first class had the same
pay scale, however, the job was different and had a different sleeve
insignia. Airman First Class is the lowest aviation rate in aerial combat
on 7 Dec 1941 above Oahu.
- HTH,
Cheers,
David Aiken
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: Cruiser K
<mailto:cruiserk@wans.net?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:32 p.m.
-
- In Response To: IJN Ranking System *PIC* (EMP_204_Rik)
-
- I tried logging on to your site
but it was down. I will give you what information that I know. I am not
100% certain. Ranking for airmen starts with Petty Officer 3rd class, 2nd
class, and 1st class. Chief Petty Officer, Warrant Officer, Ensign,
Lt.(jg) junior grade, Lt. (1st class), Lt. Commander, Commander, and
Captain. Other people may be able to give more exact information. The
Japanese names for these ranks I am not exactly sure of but a site
eliteguard.org/302 has Japanese Naming equivalent. Japan was most unique
in allowing petty officers and master sgt. pilot -(airmen status). Higher
ranks were reserved for more social elite graduates from prominate naval academies.
Some of Japans best Naval aviators were petty officers. This however can
be deceiving and Petty Officer status in Japanese Navy During WWII was
most nearly if not equivalent to Ensign status in the US Navy.
-
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: Cruiser K
<mailto:cruiserk@wans.net?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:41 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJN Ranking
System (Cruiser K)
-
- Sorry I misspelled link. Correct
link is attached.
-
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: EMP_204_Rik
<mailto:harlow@inreach.com?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 11:49 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJN
Ranking System (Cruiser K)
-
- Thanks Cruiser K,
I am a bit embarrassed as the 302nd is one of my squads. LOL. I need to
get with their Commander on this. Please try my site again, and check our rankings. The
pilots list is under "pilots" on the menu.
- Rik_
-
-
- Re: IJN Ranking System
-
- Posted By: Cruiser K
<mailto:cruiserk@wans.net?subject=Re: IJN Ranking System>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 7:31 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJN Ranking
System (EMP_204_Rik)
-
- Thanks Rick visited your site and
was real impressed. Sorry about the mix up. I see you have Japanese naming
for your ranking system. As I am least familiar with this I would have to
say you have done an excellent job. I am only familiar with the English
naming convention for Japanese Naval Aviators during WWII. However there
is an excellent post here by a fellow message board member (David
Aiken)that has additional info for correct ranking badges also. "A
Tiger prowls for over 1,000 miles for its prey" Good Hunting.
-
- Cruiser "K"
-
- Re: IJA and IJN Ranks [FAQ
candidate]
-
- Posted By: David_Aiken
<mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: IJA and IJN Ranks [FAQ
candidate]>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 10:27 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJN Ranking
System (EMP_204_Rik)
-
- Hi Rik,
Once upon a time, the IJN enlisted ranks were posted and was an early FAQ.
These got lost in the ether. Recent requests, yours included, have asked
for these again. Checked your web page and note that you have used IJA
collar tabs with the IJN ranks. This may be remedied using AIR NEWS mag
(August 1944), or the book Japanese Uniforms and Equipment (also out of
print), or other sources.
- Japanese Officer ranks are the
same for IJA and IJN. The point of difference is in translation. If we
speak of British equivalent terms, then the translation is somewhat
different than American terms. The following uses American terms:
- Taisho = General or Admiral
Chujo = Lt General or Vice-Admiral
Shosho = Major General or Rear Admiral
- Taisa = Colonel or Captain
[IJN liked to use "Daisa" instead!]
Chusa = Lt Colonel or Commander
Shosa = Major or Lt Commander
Taii = Captain or Lieutenant
Chui = First Lieutenant or Lieutenant (JG)
Shoi = Second Lieutenant or Ensign
- It becomes a problem to compare
enlisted ranks with American enlisted ranks. There were also changes in
the Japanese Naval enlisted ranks after select dates.
- IJA Enlisted Ranks
Juni = Warrant Officer
Socho = Sergeant Major
Gunso = Sergeant
Socho = Corporal
Heicho = Lance Corporal (leading Private)
Jotohei = Superior Private
Ittohei = Private First Class
Nitohei = Private
- IJN Enlisted Ranks (pre-June 1941)
Joto (Koku) Heiso = (Air) Chief Petty Officer
Itto (Koku) Heiso = (Air) Petty Officer First Class
Nito (Koku) Heiso = (Air) PO2c
Santo (Koku) Heiso = (Air) PO3c
Itto (Koku) Hei = (Air) Airman 1c
Nito (Koku) Hei = (Air) Airman 2c
Santo (Koku) Hei = (Air) Airman 3c
- IJN Enlisted Ranks POST-June 1941
Joto (Hiko) Heiso = (Flight) Petty Officer
Itto (HIko) Heiso = (Flight) PO1c
Nito (Hiko) Heiso = (Flight) PO2c
Santo (Hiko) Heiso = (Flight) PO3c
Itto (Hiko) Hei = Flyer 1c
Nito (Hiko) Hei = Flyer 2c
Santo (Hiko) Hei = Flyer 3c
- AFTER November 1942, three
changes:
the (Hiko) Heisocho = (Flight) Warrant Officer
was placed above the CPO;
and an (Hiko) Heicho = Assistant (Flight) Petty Officer
and a Joto (Hiko) Hei = Chief Flyer REPLACED the Santo (Hiko) Heiso
- The additional term
"Koku" or "Hiko" determines the aeronautical nature of
the aviator job. This is "understood" in many aeronautical texts
and thus eliminated.
- The difference between Japanese
Naval ratings is similar to US Navy ratings. A Japanese Seaman First
Class, for example, has crossed anchors on his rank badge; the Japanese
Flyer First Class has crossed aircraft; the Japanese Mechanic First Class
has crossed wrenches; etc.
- The range of NAVAL aviators in
combat is usually "Flyer 1c" and above. Those lower ranks of
"Flyer 2c" or "Flyer 3c" are ranks seen in training
schools. Again usually the top Naval flying officer on an aircraft carrier
is "Hikotaicho" or "Kokutaicho" in land units with the
rank of Lieutenant Commander, with the Commander job slot going to a
non-flying officer (usually with aviator experience) as
"Hikocho". However, as the war progressed, several
"Hikocho" positioned men were placed in combat flight
"slots" as "Hikotaicho" or "Kokutaicho".
-
- HTH,
Cheers,
David Aiken
Director
Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.
-
- Re: IJA and IJN Ranks [FAQ
candidate]
-
- Posted By: Jim Broshot
<mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: IJA and IJN Ranks [FAQ
candidate]>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 10:35 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: IJA and IJN
Ranks [FAQ candidate] (David_Aiken)
-
- Other sources with colored
illustrations (IJNAF and JAAF) include:
- AIR FORCE BADGES AND INSIGNIA OF
WORLD WAR 2 (Guido Rosignoli) Greenhill
Press reprint of U S WAR DEPARTMENT HANDBOOK ON JAPANESE MILITARY FORCES
-
-
- Posted By: Andrew Obluski <mailto:aoba41@yahoo.com?subject=Chihaya and Furukawa>
Date: Thursday, 22 March 2001, at 2:48 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Lt. Cdr. CHIHAYA, Takehiko (2) *No Text*
*PIC* (UCHIDA, Katsuhiro)
-
- Hello, Katsuhiro-san
- I have few more questions about JNAF aviators. I'd like to know what rank held Takehiko Chihaya and Izumi Furukawa when they were killed in action. Were they promoted two ranks like Shigeharu Murata and Takashige Ekusa to Navy Captain following their heroic death in battle?
- Apart from it one more question. How IJN treated the cases of Kenzo Kanno [of Coral Sea] and Sakio Komatsu [of Marianas Islands]? Were they upgraded by two ranks like Kamikaze pilots?
-
- Greetings
Andrew
-
- Re: Chihaya Kaigun Shosa & Furukawa Kaigun Daii
-
- Posted By: UCHIDA, Katsuhiro <mailto:2000gt-b@mui.biglobe.ne.jp?subject=Re: Chihaya Kaigun Shosa & Furukawa Kaigun Daii>
Date: Friday, 23 March 2001, at 9:53 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Chihaya and Furukawa (Andrew
Obluski)
-
- Hello again (x2), Andrew-san,
- Chihaya became "Lieutenant Commander" about one month before he was KIA. Furukawa was "Lieutenant (sg)".
According to Chihaya's elder brother Capt. CHIHAYA, Masataka (who helped Dr. Prange writing "Tora!Tora!Tora!"), his brother Takehiko was promoted two ranks after Takehiko was KIA in Marianas.
BTW, Chihaya's elder brother Masataka also wanted to be a pilot, but he could not. If both of two brother were officers, only ONE was chosen as an aviator.
- Komatsu? Taiho D4Y1 pilot who tried to crash into US sub's torpedo? I am sorry I do not have the information about his career right now...
- Wow! You know more Japanese Navy pilots than I do!
I really cannot catch up with your curiosity! (But I must say that researching the aviator is very hard, but very exciting!)
-
- Thanks and best regards,
Katsuhiro
- By now, I have no further information of Furukawa.
-
- His brother...
-
- Posted By: UCHIDA, Katsuhiro <mailto:2000gt-b@mui.biglobe.ne.jp?subject=His brother...>
Date: Tuesday, 13 March 2001, at 8:52 a.m.
-
- In Response To: PH or Midway Lt. Chihaya's pilot name ? (Emmanuel)
-
- Hi Emmanuel,
- His elder brother Cdr. CHIHAYA, Masataka was a staff officer of Combined Fleet.
He helped Dr. Prange writing the novel after the war.
- For further information about T. Chiyaya, please visit the URL I posted on Ships page before.
-
- Regards,
Katsuhiro
-
- Re: Lt. Chihaya and pilot
-
- Posted By: Mark E. Horan <mailto:mhoran@snet.net?subject=Re: Lt. Chihaya and pilot>
Date: Monday, 12 February 2001, at 7:31 a.m.
-
- In Response To: PH or Midway Lt. Chihaya's pilot name ? (Emmanuel)
-
- On 4 June 1942 the Akagi Kanbaku Buntai formed part of the Midway Striking Force. Lt. Chihaya Takehiko (not Lt.Cdr.) led the strike. His pilot was PO1c
-
- Yoshida Kiyoto.
-
-
- Posted By: Klemen L. <mailto:imperia555@hotmail.com?subject=Japanese
Army & Naval Air Force Ranks 1941>
Date: Sunday, 14 July 2002, at 2:51 p.m.
-
- Hi guys,
- I am doing a table of ranks for the
Netherlands, Imperial Japan and Great Britain, and I was wondering if
anyone could write me down the comparable IJAAF (Army Air Force) and IJNAF
(Naval Air Force) Ranks for the following RAF ranks:
- Marshal of the RAF
Air Chief Marshal
Air Marshal
Air Vice Marshal
Air Commodore
Group Captain
Wing Commander
Squadron Leader
Flight Lieutenant
Flying Officer
Pilot Officer
- I would not like to made any mistakes.
Also an additional question: Does anyone know what kind of ranks did use
British Naval Aviation (Fleet Air Arm) during WWII? The same as Royal
Navy, or were there any added titles like for instance in Royal Dutch
Naval Aviation.
- Thanx in advance,
- Klemen
-
- Re: Japanese Army & Naval Air
Force Ranks 1941
-
- Posted By: Rob Graham - the ReiShikiSenGuy
Date: Sunday, 14 July 2002, at 5:56 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Japanese Army & Naval
Air Force Ranks 1941 (Klemen L.)
-
- Would this help?
- --Rob
-
- I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Klemen L. <mailto:imperia555@hotmail.com?subject=I
don't get it...>
Date: Monday, 15 July 2002, at 5:24 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Japanese Army &
Naval Air Force Ranks 1941 (Rob Graham - the ReiShikiSenGuy)
-
- The Japanese Army Air Force used the same
types of ranks the Army??? Was there no additional abbreviation
"air" to distinct the rank between army and army air force?
The Japanese also had no rank of air force general (??) and the highest
naval aviator's rank was Commander???
- This site,
superb-superb-superb-superb-superb as it is desperately needs a small
Glossary section where they would explain some Japanese abbreviations, air
force terms and ranks, because I, as a rookie in Japanese air study, am
completely lost...
- Also, does anyone know what was the Japanese
name for: "Imperial Japanese Army Air Force" and "Imperial
Japanese Naval Aviation"?
- Thanx,
- Klemen
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Monday, 15 July 2002, at 7:15 p.m.
-
- In Response To: I don't get it... (Klemen
L.)
-
- This page presents it clearer.
- The terms IJAAF and IJNAF are not really
official. Teikoku Rikugun Kokutai and Teikoku Kaigun Kokutai, in a more
literal translation, are Imperial Army Air Corps and Imperial Navy Air
Corps. They are not independent organizations from the Army and the Navy
but internal units of both services. The Navy had "air" for
enlisted ranks as their shipborne equivalents were "sailor" and
that didn't quite make sense. The ranks for the Army were the same as the
ground troops.
- It may also be interesting to note that the
Navy called their air crew collectively as "toujouin" (literally
"man on board") and the Army called them "kuuchu kinmusha"
("man on duty in the air").
-
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: A.E. Hamilton
<mailto:AEHamilton1@aol.com?subject=Re: I don't get it...>
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002, at 11:59 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it...
(Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
-
- My understanding of Japanese service
designations is different that what I see on this thread. My understanding
is that service designations were color based with Naval air being blue
which appears on the sakura or cherry blossom of the rank indicators
adopted by the japanese prior to WWII for enlisted and Petty Officers.
Round ratings showing aircraft etc. had been abolished but were still used
by those that already had them on their uniforms. The ordinary seaman
color was yellow. Officers had a color piping on their shoulder boards.
- My recollection is that the Army had a
similar color system that had evolved from color flashes on their stand up
uniform collars to a small spread out W looking thing on their uniforms.
- It seems to me that this is the same time
when the Navy soft caps began using one stripe to designate Petty Officers
and two stripes to designate Officers.
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Klemen L. <mailto:imperia555@hotmail.com?subject=Re:
I don't get it...>
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002, at 10:06 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it...
(Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
-
- Hi Takeuchi,
- Thanks for your kind and simple explanation.
Yes, I am aware that Japanese Armed Forces did not know an independent
branch - the Air Force - during World War II, and as such controlled by
two separate air force formations, one controlled by the Navy and the
other one by the Army.
- So theoretically speaking, if we would met
each other on Saipan Island in 1944, you as an Army Air Force Major (Sho-sa)
and I as the army major, the only thing that would distinct us would be
the army pilot badge on your chest, while the subordinated men would both
of us called by the same rank -> Sho-sa? Or would you be called Sho-sa
Koku?
- You mention "Teikoku Kaigun
Kokutai" as a kinda official name for "Imperial Navy Air
Corps". Is it possible to use in this context the term "Koku
Butai" (the Imperial Naval Air Force?, as well?
- Thanx in advance,
- Klemen
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002, at 7:21 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it... (Klemen
L.)
-
- As far as I know, a Shosa would be a Shosa.
- Also, "koku butai" would translate
more as a generic term "air unit" and not refer to the
organization.
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Jim Long <mailto:jimilong@msn.com?subject=Re:
I don't get it...>
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002, at 12:17 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it...
(Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
-
- Hiroyuki-San,
- I find it odd that the Japanese titles of
most, if not all, books from Japan omit the term "Teikoku." But
in the apparent English translations the term "Imperial" is
invariably there. What is the deal on that? Can you tell us? Is the term
not to be given, just to be implied, perhaps because they are reverent
characters? What can you tell us?
- A Japanese writer has given the name of the
army as Dai Nippon Teikoku Rikugun and the navy as Dai Nippon Teikoku
Kaigun. Do you agree?
- Jim Long
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Tuesday, 16 July 2002, at 1:59 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it... (Jim
Long)
-
- Since the official name of the country was
Dai Nippon Teikoku, the "official" name would be Dai Nippon
Teikoku Rikugun / Kaigun. However, just as the country could be referred
to as Teikoku or Nippon, the services could be abbreviated to ;
Nippon Rikugun / Kaigun
Teikoku Rikugun / Kaigun
Rikugun / Kaigun
- Or, as far as the IJA is concerned, IJA
personnel often referred to themselves as simply "Gun".
-
- Re: I don't get it...
-
- Posted By: Rob Graham - the ReiShikiSenGuy
Date: Sunday, 21 July 2002, at 7:25 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: I don't get it...
(Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
-
- Hiroyuki:
- OK, I think I can give a good
Japanese-English comparison: Gun is compared to "Soldier."
Gunjin is like saying "Army Man."
- In the Army, you're a Soldier; in the Navy,
you're a Sailor; in the Air Force, you're an Airman; and in the Marine
Corps, you're a Marine. Note that this is a very loose term, and usually
refers to the servicemen of each branch in general, usually and especially
in reference to junior enlisted - NOT NCOs, Staff NCOs, or Officers.
- In the US, we have inter-service rivalries.
There are also some derogatory terms that have been known to start fights
in bars, Army Soldiers are called Dogs or something like that (I think
because they just don't seem to be treated very well); Navy Sailors are
called Squids (a lower form of sea life, and many women in port towns can
attest to the 8 tentacles); Air Force Airman are Wing Wipers (hey, they
don't have it so bad...); Marines are Jarheads (their covers on their
heads are straight, as though they're screwed on like jar lids). Any
Jarhead can call a similar or lower-ranking Jarhead a Jarhead, but if a
Squid walked into Club Chesty and started mouthing off and calling anyone
a Jarhead, the Squid would quickly find himself being escorted to the
front hatch.
- I'd guess it's about the same with the JGSDF,
JASDF, and JMSDF - a rivalry, but no real horrible malice. Is that the
case?
- --Rob