Pre WW II Aircraft
 
 
Topics:
KI-9 Interior
Ki-10 versus Hawk III
Ki.10 Perry interior colors
"Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC*
info wanted on Ki-4 and Type 94 floatplane (New)
KI-9 Interior
 
Posted By: Clint Bauer <cbauer@mmfn.com>
Date: Monday, 20 May 2002, at 11:37 a.m.
 
I usually build Japanese Navy AC, but, a friend gave me his Nichimo 1/48 KI-9 in a trade. My question: does anyone have any interior shots? The instrument panels are sparse to say the least. Thanks in advance.
 
Re: KI-9 Interior
 
Posted By: Charles Metz <c-metz@uchicago.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 12:44 p.m.
 
In Response To: KI-9 Interior (Clint Bauer)
 
Ki-9 cockpit detail can be found on page 30 of 'Japanese Cockpit Interiors (Part 2),' by Mikesh (Monogram Close-Up series, No. 15; Monogram Aviation Publications [USA], 1977; 32 pages; approximate value US$40 [out of print]), and on pages 109 and 110 of 'Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945,' by Mikesh (Monogram Aviation Publications [USA], 2001; 328 pages; US$59.95). Please feel welcome to contact me by e-mail if you don't have access to these books.
Ki-10 versus Hawk III
 
Posted By: Alex Crawford <acrawford@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Wednesday, 3 April 2002, at 3:00 p.m.
 
I am interested in biplane versus biplane actions of WWII. Did the Ki-10 come up against the Hawk II/III during the Sino-Japanese conflict?
 
Re: Ki-10 versus Hawk III
 
Posted By: Nick Millman
Date: Thursday, 4 April 2002, at 10:22 a.m.
 
In Response To: Ki-10 versus Hawk III (Alex Crawford)
 
The short answer is - yes!
 
The combat record of the Army Type 95, Kawasaki Ki-10 "Perry", in China has been almost totally eclipsed by popular references to the Navy Type 96 "Claude" and later Zero.
 
Ki-10 units active in China during this period included the 2nd Hiko Daitai (Flying Battalion) with two operational Chutai (later to become the famous 64th Sentai), the 33rd Hiko Sentai and the 9th and 10th Independent Chutai. Army fighter units in China began to re-equip with the Type 97, Nakajima Ki-27 "Nate", from April 1938 but the Ki-10 soldiered on for some time.
 
On 19 September 1937 Ki-10s of the 33rd Sentai claimed the first Army kills in China against four unidentified Chinese light bombers (probably Douglas 02Ms). On 21 September an air battle was recorded between 8 Ki-10s of the 33rd and 7 Hawk IIs of the Chinese 28th Squadron under Chan Chi-kuang. The Ki-10s had been escorting 14 light bombers to Taiyuan and after shooting down 2 Chinese 12th Squadron Douglas 02Ms were in turn attacked by the Hawks. The Japanese leader Major Miwa was shot down and at least two Hawks were lost, including Chan's.
 
First victory for the Ki-10s of the 2nd Daitai was over Paoting airfield on 6th October, 1937 when one of three attacking Curtiss Shrikes was shot down by Lt Sawada. In addition to Vought Corsairs (the two seater biplane recon/light bombers not the bent wing birds!) and even a Dragon Rapide, further Ki-10 claims in this unit were made against Chinese aircraft identified mostly as I-15s and the odd Gladiator. Air battles with the I-15s were extensive and ferocious.
 
There are certainly opportunities for some unusual "dogfight doubles"!
 
Ichiro Hasegawa relates that the Ki-10 was carefully finished with rivets and panel lines puttied to achieve a smooth flying surface and that each pilot was presented with a small hammer to clear the frequent jams of the Type 89 machine guns!
 
I'm currently working on a series of Ki-10 profiles illustrating unit markings and colour schemes so let me know if you need further details.
 
Re: Ki-10 versus Hawk III
 
Posted By: Alex Crawford <acrawford@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Thursday, 4 April 2002, at 2:18 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki-10 versus Hawk III (Nick Millman)
 
Thanks for the info. Don't know if you remember but we corresponded about three years ago on Chinese Gladiators. This was part of my research for a book I was preparing on the Gloster Gladiator. You may be pleased to know that my book has now been published.
The Ki-10 interests me as it was one of the Japanese Army's last biplane fighters to see active service. Similar in a way to the RAF's Gladiator.
That aside my main research at the moment is on the Curtiss Hawk I/II/III/IV series of biplane fighters. I know China used these in large numbers, but I am also looking for the Japanese view point of the Sino-Japanese conflict.
Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Mario Bartoli <mario@bartoli.com>
Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 3:56 a.m.
 
HI, I am building the 1/48 Ki.10 from Wings, is there anyone who can give me an idea of the interior colors?
 
I have none, except for the instrument panel that should be black. Everything else seems painted in a light color, but which one?
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>
Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 5:33 p.m.
 
In Response To: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Mario Bartoli)
 
I can't answer your question but can lay out some color possibilities for your consideration. The Ki.10's metallic fuselage interior was likely painted in some variant of aotake; a transluscent shade of blue, green or perhaps the sand color as reported for Kawasaki's later Ki.61's. The cockpit area of the Nakajima Ki.27, which replaced the Ki.10, is reported to have been an opaque dark blue gray near FS 36152 to 36118.
 
I put this question to Katsushi Owaki about 2 years ago concerning the Nakajima Ki.4 recon. His replied the initial production machines were given an interior coating of the aotaki inside the fuselage. Sometime in 1936 the official specs were changed to call for dark blue gray in the cockpit areas of that type.
 
The production of the Ki.10 also spanned that time period. A similar situation may have occurred. However, the fact of a spec change occurred does not necessalily mean that Kawasaki responded in the same way as Nakajima.
 
If I remember correctly, in some of his postings on this website in 1999/2000, Katshshi reported the dark blue gray color in the crew areas of the Sally by Mitsubishi. Perhaps he will see these postings and make any needed corrections or clarifications.
 
Will you describe your build of this vac kit? I have an AvUsk 1/72 scale injection kit in progress myself. I will likely paint mine in aotake transluscent blue or the opaque dark blue gray.
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors *PIC*
 
Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 6:45 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Ken Glass)
 
Although I am not sure about Kawasaki, the sucessor Ki27 had dark blue interior and a seat claimed to be from a Ki21 (I am not certain about this identification) displayed at the Tokorozawa Air Museum is a opaque dark blue. The interior of the Type 91 also at the Tokorozawa Museum is in a pretty bad condition but it seems to have been painted in some kind of dark paint, perhaps a dark blue that suffered color shift.
 
Editors note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/hiroyuki%20_takeuchi/91-4.jpg
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>
Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 7:25 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors *PIC* (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
 
Thank you for reminding me of your Type 91 walk around photos. It appears as if the interior of this particular Type 91 was given a rough and incomplete application of a dark reddish brown. Perhaps the maroon brown that was used on IJN and IJA aircraft props and spinners. I saw photos of this exhibit on J. Myhrman's site a few years ago. I think he said this exhibit had once been used as an instructional airframe by the IJAAF. That may explain the dark brown application on this particular example.
 
There are also some black and white photos of a Ki.10 on this website provided by George Mellinger. Two show limited but useful detail of its cockpit interior. Can you cite a printed source having accurate drawings of the Ki.10? I would be interested in drawings showing its internal structure, such as was done in the Maru Mechanic series.
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Johan Myhrman <myhrman@debitel.net>
Date: Saturday, 8 June 2002, at 12:23 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Ken Glass)
 
Another source for internal structure of the Ki10 is the Green Arrow book: Illustrated Warplane History, Imperial Japanese Army Warplane ISBN4-7663-3209-1. They are structual diagrams of fuselage, wings and tailplane. Also some details of rudder pedals and landing gear. The drawings seems to come from a manual. There is also a "freehand" drawing of the cockpit perhaps based on the existig cockpit photos(?).
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Bob K <rkennedy55@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 4 June 2002, at 3:56 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Ken Glass)
 
I have an old model art magazine that has a fold out, I think three panel, plane of the KI-10 and it has "some" internal plans. The problem is I don't have a scanner. If you drop me an address I would gladly copy it and send you a copy.
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Monday, 3 June 2002, at 8:08 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Ken Glass)
 
Actually, the dark brown does not look like a paint, but more like a stain of sorts; either from some clear coat or even just oil that yellowed with age.
 
Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors
 
Posted By: Elephtheriou George <arawasi_g@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 4 June 2002, at 8:55 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Ki.10 Perry interior colors (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
 
was very lucky to take a look at the Tokorozawa's Type 91 (when was it? end of last year?) and that "brown" thing looked a lot like brass/copper or something to me. Certainly not paint. It started at about in front of the instrument pannel and reached well behind the pilot's seat.
The lighting conditions inside the hangar were terrible so couldn't make out the blue color of the instrument pannel. But looking at your excellent photos (and a couple I took) seems very close to the "H54 Navy Blue" interior colour the Fujimi kit of the Ki-36/Ki-55 was calling for.
What do you think?
"Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, 17 July 2002, at 8:08 a.m.
 
The photo below was posted by MIREK on the J-A Dot Com General MB. Check out the factory camouflage scheme ... almost like a late war Naval Nell!
 
I hope I do not offend anyone, but I have never seen such an ungainly aircraft. Being on vacation and not having my MIKESH references with me, can anyone identify this aircraft?
 
Credit: Mirek; http://sweb.cz/mira.sira; http://sweb.cz/mira.sira/Ki-002-01(Aikoku264).jpg
 
Editors note: Picture at http://sweb.cz/mira.sira/Ki-002-01(Aikoku264).jpg
Editors note: Link to http://sweb.cz/mira.sira/
 
Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What?
 
Posted By: Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
Date: Wednesday, 17 July 2002, at 9:08 a.m.
 
In Response To: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
This is a Mitsubishi Ki-2-II, Type 93 Light Bomber, "Louise."
 
Yeah, this is one funky a/c. Peronally, I've always thought the Mitsubishi Ki-1 was even more ungainly. I think it looks like a flying dumptruck. But still, there's something kind of cool about it because of its uglyness.
 
Re: I have never seen such an ungainly aircraft
 
Posted By: Graham Boak <graham@agboak.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wednesday, 17 July 2002, at 9:11 a.m.
 
In Response To: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
You're not into mid-war French aircraft, then? Particularly their Multiplace de Combat category?
 
Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What?
 
Posted By: Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, 17 July 2002, at 2:26 p.m.
 
In Response To: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Actually, it looks pretty modern for its time. Cantilever monoplane with retractable landing gear, reasonable turret in the from.
 
If you want ugly, try French and Italian ,I mean only their 30s a/c not their girls :-)
 
Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What?
 
Posted By: Rob Graham - the ReiShikiSenGuy
Date: Wednesday, 17 July 2002, at 8:10 p.m.
 
In Response To: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
You wrote:
"Check out the factory camouflage scheme ... almost like a late war Naval Nell!"
 
I think that's not a camo, but an overall color, and I'm guessing gray or something. It doesn't seem to have the sheen of metallic, as a silver dope would show.
 
What I think is interesting is the appearance of the wing's washout, which I didn't think was introduced until 1935 or so - on the Claude.
 
Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What?
 
Posted By: Malcolm Laing <mlaing@door.net>
Date: Tuesday, 23 July 2002, at 12:50 p.m.
 
In Response To: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Would it by any chance be a modified copy of the FW-58? The fuselage and cockpit area have a resemblance to that aircraft. I grant that the twin tail, radial engines and front turret? are different, but I think I see a family resemblance.
 
Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What?
 
Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Wednesday, 24 July 2002, at 12:39 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: "Mitsubishi 'Ugly Duckling' Aikoku " Or What? (Malcolm Laing)
 
This plane is based on a German design, but not a Focke Wulf, but the Junkers K-37.
 
info wanted on Ki-4 and Type 94 floatplane
 
Posted By: Kevin Dolin <myriads@ucatv.ne.jp>
Date: Sunday, 13 October 2002, at 7:20 a.m.
 
I have the Planet Models 1/48 resin Ki-4 and its Navy Type 94 variant. The instruction sheets simply state they were the last biplane recon a/c used by both services and that they were used in close air support from the beginning to the middle of the Japanese invasion of China.
 
Does anyone have any further info on these a/c or know where I might find some? I've spent some time in Googleland, but just about everything I've found is either about the kit and who carries it or the skimpy bit of information on the instructions.
 
Any help in getting more history on these a/c would be very much appreciated.
 
Some Ki-4 info
 
Posted By: Charles Metz <c-metz@uchicago.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 16 October 2002, at 2:15 p.m.
 
In Response To: info wanted on Ki-4 and Type 94 floatplane (Kevin Dolin)
 
The only detail info I've found on the Ki-4 is in the following books:
 
Nohara: 'Imperial Japanese Army Warplane [sic]' (Illustrated Warplane History series, No. 6; Green Arrow [Japan], 1997; in Japanese; 212 pages) -- Ki-4 fuselage structure (p. 57), tail structure (p. 58), wing structure (p. 58)
 
Nozawa, Hashimoto and Ogawa: 'Encyclopedia of Japanese Aircraft 1900-1945. Vol. 5: Nakajima' (Encyclopedia of Japanese Aircraft series, No. 5; Shuppan-Kyodo Publishers [Japan], 1966; in Japanese; 242 pages [out of print]) -- small Ki-4 multi-view drawings (p. 51-53)
 
------: 'IJA Presentation Aircraft (exact title unknown [specified in Japanese])' (Model Art Special Issue series, No. 599; Model Art [Japan], 2001; in Japanese; 116 pages) -- small Ki-4 multi-view drawings (p. 106, 107).
Return to Army Message Board