Re: ....my interpretation
Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi
Date: Wednesday, 11 July 2001, at 8:29 p.m.
In Response To: Re: ....my interpretation (Grant
Goodale)
The reports of wild colored Vals reportedly used at PH are results of interviews to former crewmen, though the few ex-PH crew I saw did not mention them.
According to these interviews, the idea was, like Mitch says, to paint the commander's planes in wild colors to facilitate getting back into formation after their bomb runs.
Dive bomber tactics at the time dictated the planes to go in one-by-one from all directions so the target cannot escape, but this resulted in the dive bombers getting scattered all over the sky after the attack.
Re: Not my interpretation
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Not my interpretation>
Date: Sunday, 8 July 2001, at 1:36 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Not my interpretation (Deniz
Karacay)
Hi Gents,
My introduction to research of Japanese aircraft occurred in 1975. I was driving down the main street of Fredricksburg, Texas when my passenger turned to me and said, "There's a pink airplane crashed in that lot back there!" It turned out to be the Nimitz Museum's Aichi 99 Model 22. It was indeed a very ruddy color with no brown tint to speak of. When it had arrived from Gasmata three years previously it still had s fair amount of dark green paint on it but Texas sun and thunderstorms quickly stripped that away.
Cheers!
Greg
Re: Not my interpretation
Posted By: Bill Sanborn <mailto:bsanborn@psemc.com?subject=Re: Not my interpretation>
Date: Sunday, 8 July 2001, at 8:02 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Not my interpretation (CJE)
You will be surprised by some of the latest research. Check out the research section linked off the front page and check out the post I have linked below.
Bill
Re: Wartime Zero Art: Hairyokushoku?
Posted By: Bob Morris <mailto:rmorris@expression.org?subject=Re: Wartime Zero Art: Hairyokushoku?>
Date: Saturday, 9 June 2001, at 10:09 a.m.
In Response To: Wartime Art and Zero Color (Corrected Credit)
*PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
Jim,
If this is indeed wartime art it points up again the question of why the Zeros came out as a light grey. If the people that flew the planes got the color correct why couldn't someone else?
I assume this has been covered in depth but it still makes me wonder how such a large color mistake could have been made.
Best,
Bob
Re: Wartime Zero Colors: Why Not Gray?
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Wartime Zero Colors: Why Not Gray?>
Date: Saturday, 9 June 2001, at 11:33 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Wartime Zero Art:
Hairyokushoku? (Bob Morris)
Hi Bob
I suppose that for ten years or more after the war no one really cared what color the early Zeros were. The only color which had appeared in the Western books of that period portrayed Zeros as gray. B/W photos did not tell any stories. Finally, when someone really took some interest in modeling Japanese aircraft, some folks did start fresh by looking at pieces of aircraft which had lain about the Pacific battle areas exposed to the elements for two decades or more. These relic, indeed, had turned light gray and chalky. By that time, the memories of the veterans had also faded. Interestingly, many war time reports, do mention the light gray-green color. Sometimes it is described as gray and at other times gray with a trace of green (similar to colors know to the British as "sky").
Follow the link below to some of these early references, which became perpetuated in later publications because no one questioned the sources of the authors and artists and few if anyone did original research or examinations of unweathered relics!
Jim Lansdale
Re: Wartime Zero Colors: Why Not Gray?
Posted By: Bob Morris <mailto:rmorris@expression.org?subject=Re: Wartime Zero Colors: Why Not Gray?>
Date: Saturday, 9 June 2001, at 7:36 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Wartime Zero Colors: Why Not Gray? (James F. Lansdale)
Hi Jim,
I think this is akin to WWII being a B&W war. Sometimes hard to switch into color.
Just finished a painting of some Zeros and for the life of me it was very hard to get that color into my mind set. After many color sketches though I was able to paint the oil w/o hesitation and sort of wished I didn't have to put on the dk green camo as the grey green looked terrific and "right", better than light grey.
Like the man said, all in the mind.
Best,
Bob
Posted By: Andrew Monroe <mailto:amonroe@spp.org?subject=FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Tuesday, 24 July 2001, at 10:38 a.m.
I've been scouring the NAts Faqs board for info on what color to paint a zero and a val that I am working on. Someone suggested Mr. Springer mix, and someone else suggested Pollyscal concrete. What was used? Also does someone know where I could buy Pollyscale concrete if it in fact was used.
TIA
Andrew
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 2:02 p.m.
In Response To: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Andrew et al -
Here is the paint mixes that were used for the Nats 2001 Pearl Harbour project. I was the keeper of the original spreadsheets so what follows is a text summation:
Zeroes: "SpringerMaster" mix as noted in other posts
Kates from Kaga and Akagi: Polly Scale Concrete (acrylic) lowers with Polly Scale (acrylic) IJN Dark Green uppers.
Kates from other carriers: Tamiya Dark Yellow + 30% white lowers, the upper surfaces being mottled with Polly Scale (acrylic) IJN Dark Green. For Soryu, Hiryu and Zuikaku, there is additional mottling of Polly Scale (acrylic) IJA Brown.
Vals from the Akagi: ModelMaster Enamel RLM 02 + 30% white.
Vals from the Kaga: Tamiya Dark Yellow + 30% white.
Vals from other carriers: ModelMaster Enamel 2098 RAL 7008 1941 Afrika Khakibraun + 30% white.
Jakes: ModelMaster Enamel RLM 02 + 30% white.
Don't ask about how these colours were determined since it involved over 6 months of research and vigorous debate.
I hope that this ends the confusion.
- Grant
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Andrew Monroe <mailto:amonroe@spp.org?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 2:13 p.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Grant
Goodale)
Is Polly Scale IJN Deep Green a seperate color from Polly Scale IJN Green? Does anyone know of an online webstore where I can purchase these Polly Scale Colors?
THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE JOINED IN AND HELPED ME HERE
Andrew
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Clark Hollis <mailto:Raidenhollis@cs.com?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Tuesday, 24 July 2001, at 9:38 p.m.
In Response To: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Hi Andrew,
Just in case all these other guys have you all confused, I'll try to give you the straight scoop. Don't get me wrong, they wouldn't confuse you intentionally.
The last information, that I got before the Nat'l Convention, from Tim (I think), showed the following paint standards: All A6M Zeros were to be painted with the Springer mix of Testors Model Master enamel. The Kates were to have a base coat of Tamiya Dark Yellow acrylic (tinted with white for scale effect) and dark green uppers in Polly Scale IJN Dark Green, where appropriate, and some may have carried a brown color in certain areas, which was to be done with Polly Scale IJA Brown acrylic. EXCEPT that the Kates from Akagi and Kaga were to have a base coat of Polly Scale Concrete acrylic RR color 414317. The Vals from Akagi and the Jake were to be painted overall base coat of Testors Model Master enamel RLM 02, lightened with white for scale effect.
The Kaga Vals were to be in the Tamiya Dark Yellow / white mix. The remainder of the Vals were to be finished in an overall mix of Testors Model Master enamel 2098 RAL 7008, 1941 Khakibraun and white to lighten it.
The Polly Scale acrylic Old Concrete No. 505210 is NOT the one to get. Make sure you get the PS acrylic Railroad color No. 414317. The Railroad color has been referred to as Floquil enamel and that is confusing to many and it is not an enamel.
If I screwed up somewhere, I hope one of the other good guys will correct me.
Happy modeling.
Clark
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Clark Hollis <mailto:Raidenhollis@cs.com?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Wednesday, 25 July 2001, at 7:17 p.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Hi Andrew,
The regular line of Polly Scale paints are carried by The Squadron Shop, amongst others. I don't know where you can get the Railroad colors on line. If you can get a copy of Fine Scale Modeler magazine, they have listings of a lot of hobby suppliers.
Testors Model Master enamel RLM 02 is a light greenish-gray color primarily used for cockpits and wheel wells on WWII German aircraft. I believe the stock number is 2071.
I'm not sure what the mix of white and khakibraun was supposed to be. Hopefully, one of the guys who used it on their models can tell you, such as Dave Pluth, Tim Hortman or Bill Sanborn.
Please holler if you need more help.
Clark
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 6:41 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Clark Hollis)
Clark -
IIRC, the mix used for all of the Nats project "greys" added 30% white for scale effect in 1/72. This percentage reduces as the scale increases. I think it was 20-25% for 1/48.
HTH
- Grant
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Merv Brewer <mailto:mervin.brewer@slc.k12.ut.us?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 8:21 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Grant
Goodale)
Hi guys,
FYI, If you mix alot of White with the Floquil Concrete it comes out pretty close to the Poly-Scale Concrete. I have to do this when I run out of Poly-Scale Concrete. I shoot my Akagi/ Kaga Kates with a lightend Floquil mixture, so they are slightly different from the others. I shoot the rest of my Kates,my Zeros and most of my Vals with Poly- Scale Concrete. It helps me to keep them standardized. (As you recall I build alot of them) Great Models Web store has Floquil Concrete in stock. If you ask Loic, I am sure he can get the Poly-Scale Concrete for you. All he would have to do is walk 10 steps next store. We stock it, but we don't ship.(Bosses folosify,not mine)
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Andrew Monroe <mailto:amonroe@spp.org?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 9:46 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Merv Brewer)
1 thing I have found on greatmodels is that if you search for Polly Scale, it returns Floquil Enamels. The Floquil enamel concrete, has the exact same number, 414317, as polly scale concrete, are they the same?
Also, who worked on the Nats ships?
YOu have one of the colors as PS(polly scale) IJN "Dark" Green. Is there really a dark green or is it just green?
Thanks for all the help
Andrew
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 10:47 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Andrew -
The Floquil and Polly Scale Concretes are different colours. Both Joe Taylor and I have a set of paint chips from each that we swapped last year. If anyone doubts this the let them do a pair of paint chips and see for themselves.
Also, do not even think about their "Old Concrete" in the railroad line - that is another different
colour.
FWIW
- Grant
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Merv Brewer <mailto:mervin.brewer@slc.k12.ut.us?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 10:31 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Andrew,
I model mostly in 1/48. I find it more condusive to the shadeind that I do. I use Testors 34079 Dark Green on my P.H. Kates when I do an over all Green top side. I first spray the Concrete color on the whole thing. Next I spray the Green in a hap-hazzard way, thicker and darker in some areas. Just like the real ones. On the Kates that I choose to give a mottled Green and Brown camo to, I use IJN green. It looks better with this type of camo pattern. An example of this was at Nationals. If you go to ipmsusa.org you will find links to pictures taken at nationals. On one of those pages you will find my 1/48 scale Kate. I belive that Floquil 414317 is actually a Poly-scale acrilic number. I will double check when I go to work latter today and get back to you tommorow. Cheers, Merv
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Clark Hollis <mailto:Raidenhollis@cs.com?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 11:19 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Merv Brewer)
Hi Merv, Andrew, Grant, etal,
In the interest of making clear what particular paints we are discussing, I'd like to make this suggestion. Please, in the future, don't refer to the Polly Scale acrylic Railroad color 414317 as "Floquil". Both, that paint and the Polly Scale Old Concrete 505210, are Polly Scale acrylics. I think the reference to the Railroad color, either by "Floquil" or by "enamel" are confusing and misleading. If there are other concrete colors, in either paint line, I'm not familiar with them.
Maybe, the best thing to do is to always refer to the stock number (414317 or 505210 or whatever). That way, there should be no misunderstanding of what is being referred to.
Maybe, I'm the only one who is confused. Blame it on old age and/or ignorance. I hope y'all understand.
Happy modeling.
Clark
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 1:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Clark Hollis)
Clark -
When I refer to Polly Scale, it is ALWAYS their acrylics and Floquil is ALWAYS their enamels or lacquers although others may not take that hard line approach. The reason that I always mention the "railroad line" is that many of the hobby stores that we frequent do not go in for trains and, subsequently, would not stock the desired paint. By stating "Polly Scale Railroad Line Concrete", it narrows it down to a unqiue paint and gives a person a hint of where to find it easily in model railroad shops. That being said, an item number would also help the shopper or the shop keeper doing the ordering.
Eventually we will wrestle this puppy to the ground :)
- Grant
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Tim Hortman <mailto:thortman@epix.net?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Tuesday, 24 July 2001, at 11:49 a.m.
In Response To: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Hi Andrew,
For the ZEROs we did use the mix that Greg Springer made.
Here is the formula using Testors Model Master Enamels:
20 parts SAC Bomber Tan
11 parts white
0.9 parts Green Sinc Chromate
-- Greg also added 30% white to deal with the scale effect for 1/72 scale.
I know that the PS Concrete is a close color if you are not into all of the mixing. The trouble is it is not that easy to find. The item you are looking for is from the PollyScale Rail Road line #414317 CONCRETE. (do not get any other concrete color, as they are not correct, and they do have several different shades.) I think that Squadron has it.
For the most part, we used Model Master Enamel "2098 AF KHAKIBRAUN 41 RAL7008" for the VALs. Some of the VALs were painted with the Concrete color, but it was carrier dependant.
I hope this helps! Give me a shout if you have any further questions!
Tim
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Merv Brewer <mailto:mervin.brewer@slc.k12.ut.us?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Friday, 27 July 2001, at 7:38 a.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
O.K. I checked at great models yesterday. What is on his web site as FLOQUIL 414317, is actually Poly-scale 414317. He for some unknown reason chose to list all of his Poly-scale as Floquil. We are his supplier for this paint. Floquil Concrete is a MUCH darker shade. I mix it @ 60-40 with with white when I paint my Akagi/Kaga Kates. I agree with the other guys that the Tamiya paints give a better color. I simply prefur to use Floquil or Poly-scale. I HATE to spray Tamiya Acrylics. I do not like the way they flow and I dont like to clean them out of my Badger 150. Again it is just my
preferance.
Re: FAQ's Nats board
Posted By: Tim Hortman <mailto:thortman@epix.net?subject=Re: FAQ's Nats board>
Date: Tuesday, 24 July 2001, at 12:47 p.m.
In Response To: Re: FAQ's Nats board (Andrew Monroe)
Andrew,
I believe that the Floquil color is different, but a have not used it.
I was mistaken in my earlier post: some of the Kates used the Concrete color; not the Vals.
I'll send you a copy of the color chart in a seperate email.
Kates were mostly Tamiya XF-60 with some white added.
HTH.
Tim
Posted By: Elephtheriou George <mailto:elgeorge@otenet.gr?subject=MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION>
Date: Saturday, 12 May 2001, at 4:23 p.m.
Model Art 510, Camouflage & Markings of the I.J.N. Fighters, colour chips.
Put together by Nohara Shigeru. All colour samples and mixes are
aproximate.
Hinomaru Aka (Fs31136)
Gunze Sangyo MrColor:
No3 Red or No327 Sandabazu* colour (FS11136) should be used almost as they are
(without any change). The above colours are very glossy, so make them mat about
50%
-
Tamiya Colour:
XF-7 Flat Red. Put very little XF-1 Flat Black to break the "red" of the colour.
-
- Ryokukashoku "Ame Iro" (FS14201)
GSMC:
No127 Cockpit Colour (Nakajima) 60% and No128 Hairyokushoku 40% and a little yellow and black. In order to be
-
glossy, after applying the above mix, spray No46 Clear.
Tamiya:
XF-49 Khaki 60%, XF-21 Sky 40%, a little yellow, black and white. After applying the above mix, spray X-22
-
Clear to become glossy.
-
- Spinner-Propeller Iro (FS30111 or 30075)
GSMC:
No 131 Sekikashoku (Red Brown) with a little red and white.
Tamiya:
XF-10 Flat Brown 60%, XF-64 Red Brown 40% with a little red,black.
-
- Otoshoku (Orange Yellow) (FS33538 or 33432)
GSMC:
No 58 Otoshoku (Orange Yellow)
Tamiya:
XF-3 Flat Yellow with a little XF-7 Flat Red
-
- Aotake (various colours)
-
GSMC:
In No57 Aotake Iro, add various colours to create your own colour.
Tamiya:
In X-13 Metallic Blue add various colours to creat your own colour.
-
- Mitsubishi D1 Noryokukokushoku (Deep Green Black) (FS34052)
-
GSMC:
In No15 Anryokushoku (Dark Green) Nakajima, add a little white and black.
Tamiya:
In XF-11 Anryokushoku (Dark Green), add a little XF-1 Flat Black.
-
- Nakajima D1 Noryokukokushoku (Deep Green Black) (FS34077)
GSMC:
In No124 Anryokushoku (Dark Green) Mitsubishi, add a little white and black.
Tamiya:
XF-13 Noryokushoku (Deep Green) 90% and XF-1 Flat Black 10%
with a little white yellow and black.
-
- D2 Ryokukokushoku (Green Black) (FS34092)
GSMC:
In No15 Anryokushoku (Dark Green) Nakajima, add a little No35 Meikaihakushoku (Light Grey White)
-
Mitsubishi and VERY little No126 Mitsubishi cockpit colour.
-
Tamiya:
XF-11 Anryokushoku (Dark Green) 80%, XF-66 Light Grey 20% and VERY little XF-1 Flat Black and XF-2 Flat White.
-
- Mitsubishi J3 Hai Iro (Grey) (FS36496 or 36357)
GSMC:
In No128 Hairyokushoku add little white and black.
Tamiya:
In XF-12 Meikaihakushoku (Light Grey White), add a little XF-49 Khaki and XF-2 Flat White.
-
- Nakajima J3 Hai Iro (Grey) (FS36307)
GSMC:
In No128 Hairyokushoku, add a little white and black. This colour is darker than Mitsubishi, so make it a little darker.
Tamiya:
In XF-14 Meihairyokushoku (Light Grey Green), add a little XF-49 Khaki and XF-2 Flat White.
-
- H2 Tsuchi Iro (Earth Colour) (FS30099)
GSMC:
No41 Red Brown 80%, No35 Meikaihakushoku (light Grey White) Mitsubishi 20%.
Tamiya:
In XF-10 Flat Brown add a little XF-66 Light Grey and VERY little XF-2 Flat White.
-
- Oryokushoku (Yellow Green) Mitsubishi Nakajima Cockpit Colour (FS34258)
GSMC:
In No126 Cockpit Colour Mitsubishi, add a little white and yellow.
Tamiya:
XF-4 Yellow Green 60%, FX-13 Noryokushoku (Deep Green) 20%, XF-21 Sky 15%, XF-2 Flat White 5%.
-
- The Fs numbers given are close match to the colours described.
- *The Japanese pronunciation/name of the TV program with dolls "Thunderbirds".
-
- Domo,
George
-
- Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION
-
- Posted By: Bill Leyh <mailto:hawk81@pacbell.net?subject=Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION>
Date: Saturday, 12 May 2001, at 8:15 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION
(Elephtheriou George)
-
- George,
- MA 272 has a Kawanishi color chip but I don't know how accurate the chips in that volume are. It seems as though there have been many revisions to color history since it was published!
-
- Regards,
- Bill
- MA 272 Kawanishi Green = X-5 Green(62%) + X-3 Royal Blue (30%) + X-9 Brown (3%) + X-1 Black (5%)
All Tamiya colors.
-
- Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION
-
- Posted By: Elephtheriou George <mailto:elgeorge@otenet.gr?subject=Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION>
Date: Sunday, 13 May 2001, at 2:25 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: MA 510 colour chips - TRANSLATION (Bill
Leyh)
-
- Konnichi wa Bill,
-
yes I know there is a colour chip for the Kawanishi. But as I said in my previous posting the text was written by Hasegawa Ichiro san not Nohara Shigeru san.
I like to do complete job on a subject but anyway here's the translation of the text regarding the Kawanishi
colour:
-
Kawanishi Deep Dark Green
-
This colour was probably used on H6K Mavis, Shiden and Shiden-Kai. When I saw flying Shidens, the colour looked blueish and dark. And when I saw downed Shidens, the colour was much darker than the colour of the Zeros that I remember.
- I will try to post the rest of the translations during next week.
-
- Domo,
George
-
-
- Posted By: Dave Murray <mailto:murray59dj@hotmail.com?subject=Prototype Orange>
Date: Friday, 20 July 2001, at 7:20 p.m.
-
- I'm building the Hasegawa Prototype Grace.....any ideas on a commercial match on the orange?
-
thanks
Dave
-
- Re: Prototype Orange(s)
- Posted By: Tom Hall <mailto:Hall023038@aol.com?subject=Re: Prototype
Orange(s)>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 7:36 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Prototype Orange (Dave Murray)
-
- We have not worked much on the oranges.
If you look at the color standard that Mr.
Owaki gave us, the one dated February 5, 1945,
you do not find a pumpkin orange. Instead,
you find a yellow-orange around FS 3432
(Mr. Owaki's measurement). The navy's name
for it was C1. Was there ever a pumpkin
color for navy planes? If so, when did
it go out of use?
-
- Re: Prototype Orange(s)
-
- Posted By: Dr Mike Hawkins <mailto:mikeh@samart.co.th?subject=Re: Prototype
Orange(s)>
Date: Sunday, 29 July 2001, at 5:54 a.m.
-
- In Response To: Re: Prototype
Orange(s) (Antonio Veiga)
-
- To: Japanese Navy Aircraft Board
Attn: Dave Murray etc.
From: Dr Mike Hawkins
29 July 2001
-
- Prototype Orange
- First of all, Japan was extremely secretive about military aircraft
development during the '30s, a policy that paid off for them in 1941.
Our information therefore relies on photos that have come to light
since the War, reminiscences of those that were there at the time and
occasional surviving relics such as the enigmatic picture posted by
Antonia Veiga on 28 July. Was that a trainer or a prototype ?
-
- Colour film was apparently not available in Japan during the war and
so all the contemporary photos that we have are in glorious black and
white. Interpretation of colour from these pictures is difficult and
depends to some extent, on the film process. Orthochromatic
emulsion shows red as dark, yellow as black and blue as a light tone,
hence the misconception that RFC roundels in WW 1 used a pale blue
outer ring.
-
- During the '30s, panchromatic emulsion began to be used and this
gave a more even distribution of tone with colour but beware of
occasional pictures taken with "ortho". Which planes were orange ?
-
- Orange was standard for trainers of both the Army and Navy and for
Navy prototypes under test. Naval service testing took place mainly at
Yokosuka Air Base and aircraft under test carried a tail code starting
with the katakana character "Ko" ( a square bracket, open to the left).
This stood for "Kokugijutsusho" or Air Technical Department (Mikesh). This would be followed by a letter and number from the
aircraft's short name and a final number of the actual aircraft being
tested e.g. "Ko" G8 - 2 for the Nakajima G8M1 (Rita) second test
sample.
-
- Lovers of numerical order will be interested to see that the test sample
No 5 of the Seiran ( A6M1) carried the tail code "Ko" A1-5 while No 6
was completed as a Nanzan with wheels instead of floats and was
marked "Ko M6-6. When aircraft with such tail numbers had a single overall light colour
with a black engine cowling then this is an indication of prototype
orange colour, particularly if the underwing hinomaru is outlined in
white.
- Some of these aircraft were oversprayed, toward the end of the war,
with dark green on the upper surfaces but a white ring round the
hinomaru under the wing suggests the retention of orange on the
lower surfaces.
-
- Note that operational aircraft at Yokosuka carried the katakana
character "Yo" ( Capital E, reversed) as designator on the tailcode.
-
- What colour of orange ?
-
- Most Japanese books that I have seen with drawings of these aircraft
use a fairly yellow- orange as in Antonio Veiga's sample. The only colour chips that I have seen are in "Camouflage and
Markings of IJN Fighters in WW 2" Model Art No 272. The first one is
a deep reddish orange achieved by mixing the Japanese "Mr Color"
paints, Yellow 95%, Hinmomaru Blood Red 5%. I do not have US
Color Standards but anyone with access to the Methuen Handbook of
Colour ( Kornerup and Wanscher) can find it as 7A8.
-
- The second chip is a lighter orange, Methuen 6A8 and the titles are in
Kainji but my guess is that the darker colour is labelled "Experimental
Aircraft". Perhaps someone who can read Japanes may help us ?
-
- The clincher ! Back in May this year someone was kind enough to post on this
Board,some photos of the Seiran (A6M1) under restoration at the
NASM Garber facility. It is now beautifully restored in a "Pacific"
scheme of black- green and hairyokotiddleypush ( whatever). In the photos of the cockpit area, the original green paint had been
stripped off leaving patches of orange. I am convinced that this is
paint and not brown primer and it matches perfectly, the reddish tint
of the Model
- Art chip.
-
- Finally, with Japanese colour schemes there seem to be exceptions to
every rule and this year's firm conclusions are next years discarded
theories. I therfore welcome all comments except complaints about my British
spelling.
-
- Mike Hawkins (Dr.)
-
- Re: Prototype Orange
-
- Posted By: Tim Hortman <mailto:thortman@epix.net?subject=Re: Prototype Orange>
Date: Saturday, 21 July 2001, at 12:42 p.m.
-
- In Response To: Prototype Orange (Dave Murray)
-
- Hi Dave,
- I have used PollyScale 414119 "Reefer Orange" from thier model Rail Road colors and it looks pretty good to me. It is the closest thing that I have found to date.
- HTH.
Tim
-
- Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=IJNAF
varnish 1944-45>
Date: Wednesday, 26 September 2001, at 4:03 a.m.
-
- Dear Colleagues
- I tend towards leaving my 1941-42 ship-borne japanese
aircraft with a coat of Johnsons Klear (future). But what about the later
war IJN green aircraft. Did they have any varnish over their green paint?
Should one always finish with a flat varnish from 1944 onwards? Or was it
a case of no varnish (no undercoat) and get them out to the front line as
soon as possible? Was there a distinction between land and
carrier/submarine based aircraft?
- Thanks
- Andrew
-
- Re: IJNAF varnish 1944-45
-
- Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re:
IJNAF varnish 1944-45>
Date: Wednesday, 26 September 2001, at 4:49 a.m.
-
- In Response To: IJNAF varnish 1944-45 (Andrew Johnson)
-
- Andrew
- Analysts have found no evidence that the Japanese used
any clear coat covering on the early war glossy factory finishes on the
many existing relics which have retained their gloss. The reason for the
glossy nature of these finishes is the paint binder itself in which the
pigment/s was/were dissolved.
- Non-glossy surfaces were rendered thus by ADDING talc or
fine clay powder to the clear paint binder which produced a rough surface
which scattered the light. This talc or clay additon made the paint
lusterless, however reversing the process by adding a clear coat does not
seem to have been a standard factory procedure.
- Of course it is also possible that some pilots or crew
polished their aircraft to make them more streamlined after delivery.
- Jim Lansdale
-