Aichi D3A "Val"
 
Topics:
D3A1 interior
Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
Val Flaps
14th Air Wing D3A1
Pearl Harbor Val question
odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Pearl Harbor Val Relic Photos/Research Page Update *PIC*
Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC*
Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
D3A VAL 22 "35-209"
35th Kokutai "Vals"
The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three *PIC*
Modelling a PH Val
Val interior colors  
Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines  
"Val" Flaps  
B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41  
IGO Vals (New)
vals during I-GO (New)
Factory Color Schemes: The Aichi D3A1 Val *PIC* (New)
 
D3A1 interior
 
Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=D3A1 interior>
Date: Tuesday, 4 July 2000, at 9:32 a.m.
 
I am eagerly looking forward to the new CMK interior detail set for the Val, has anyone any experiences with it yet?
You can all guess my next question: what color should I paint the interior for a Pearl Harbor Val?
Thanks
Andrew
 
Re: D3A1 interior
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A1 interior>
Date: Wednesday, 5 July 2000, at 3:09 p.m.
 
In Response To: D3A1 interior (Andrew Johnson)
 
Hi Andrew,
The CMK set is a big improvement over the kit interior. Especially where they have corrected the too small rear seat. Molding of components like the dynamotors and radios is very well done and there is a photoetch and film instrument panel, fuel gauge panel and rear cockpit auxiliary panel. The two surviving D3A2s have a dark green interior that is a match to Gunze Sangyo's #6 green. Add 25% white to get the scale effect. It is probable that D3A1s had the same green interior.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: D3A1 interior
 
Posted By: Amos Terrell <mailto:ATerrell@KScable.com?subject=Re: D3A1 interior>
Date: Wednesday, 5 July 2000, at 8:02 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A1 interior (Greg Springer)
 
To: Gregg Springer
Do you have even a rough guess as what this Green might be in Model Master.
I have (per Testor's) FS34079 Dark Green, FS34102 Medium Green and FS34151 Interior Green. Of these, I believe the FS34151 is the lightest, and the FS34709 is "nearly black".
 
Thanks in advance
 
Re: D3A1 interior
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A1 interior>
Date: Thursday, 6 July 2000, at 2:47 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A1 interior (Amos Terrell)
 
Amos,
If you can get Testor's 34095 Medium Field Green it will serve very well if you add less white, say 20%. Otherwise use the 34102. You are wanting to get a dark green without the olive tint that the 34079 has. 34079 is a match for some Japanese topside dark greens however. HTH!
 
Greg
 
Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
 
Posted By: Peter Fearis <mailto:Peter@pfearis.freeserve.co.uk?subject=Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 5:43 a.m.
 
Hi all,
I am currently working on the Choroszy D1A1 and D1A2. What I want to run by you is the question of interior colors. I have researched extensively to find a reference for one but cannot find anything. I have some info and color pics of the interior of an Army Type 91 fighter from a similar period with a blue grey interior, many other types from this period have been quoted with a similar color. Would it be a reasonable assumption to paint the interiors of these aircraft in the same shade?
 
Thanks in anticipation
Peter
 
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 4:33 p.m.
 
In Response To: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Peter Fearis)
 
Hi Peter,
Here I go again. I really do think this should be a FAQ. The entire interior of the D3A2 at the Nimitz Museum is a dark green color that is a match to Gunze Sangyo Hobby Color #6 in full scale. That is their aqueous paint line. Canopy framing is included. Only instrument panels are black. Interior shots of a D3A1 shot down at Pearl Harbor show a very dark color applied that is not too much lighter than the black panels. Thus I would GUESS that dark green is correct for the earlier variant as well. HTH!
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
 
Posted By: Rob Graham <mailto:reishikisenguy@aol.com?subject=Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 8:19 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Greg Springer)
 
Uhhh, Greg, I think he was asking about D1A instead of D3A. There were the stories sometime back of the Nate's interior color, and I think the question was aimed in this direction:
 
Was Aichi's color the same as Nakajima's?
 
I am absolutely on the edge of my seat to know this (GEEK ALERT! GEEK ALERT! GEEK ALERT!), even though I have only a few models of that era. I am not qualified to answer, though, if this is the case.
 
Thanks for the Val interior color answer, though! Do you have an FS and/or Munsell match? If so, I'll work it into a table I am building for post-up, and I hope to do a similar (if Munsell) chip chart to what I did over in the research sections.
 
Rob
 
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
 
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 9:23 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Rob Graham)
 
Hello Rob,
To add to your table, note that the ex-Diemert Val now in the Planes of Fame collection had a interior color close to FS 4062.
 
Ryan
 
Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color>
Date: Wednesday, 9 August 2000, at 8:49 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Aichi D1A1- D1A2 interior color (Rob Graham)
 
Doh!!
(In robotic voice) Aichi D*A1 D*A2. Must respond! Zzzzt. Zzzzt. OVERLOAD! Aoogah! Aoogah! FS 4095 closest match to Gunze color.
 
Memo to self: Must not spend entire day in Texas sun wire-brushing and phosphating back-up refrigeration compressor and then try to carry out academic exercise. Apologies to Peter and the multitude.
 
Sheesh!
 
Val Flaps
 
Posted By: Tom Matlosz mailto:<slayer14@bellsouth.net?subject=Val Flaps>
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:23 p.m.
 
Anyone have a photo or drawing for the D3A1 Val flaps that can be posted here or emailed to me? The flaps are evidently split, two per wing, following the wing profile. Did the Val have a filler piece between the two flap sections when extended, like the slitter plate on a F4U Corsair? Or, should there be a gap showing with the flaps extended?
 
By the way, the CMK Val control surfaces resin kit is very nice, particularly the horizontal stabs and elevator sections! I'm still waiting for the cockpit set.
 
Thanks,
Tom
 
Re: Val Flaps
 
Posted By: Ryan Toews mailto:<ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Val Flaps>
Date: Thursday, 3 August 2000, at 8:16 a.m.
 
In Response To: Val Flaps (Tom Matlosz)
 
Hello Tom,
Both the Type 11 and Type 22 Vals had a one piece flap according to the drawings in Maru Mechanic 34 taken from the D3A Handling Manual. The flap hinge line was straight, cutting diagonally across the bend in the wing. The flaps' outer surface, however, conformed to the change in the wing's dihedral.
 
Ryan
 
14th Air Wing D3A1
 
Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=14th Air wing D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 3:56 a.m.
 
I just picked up a 1/48 Hasegawa D3A1 decked in the markings of the 14th Air wing (Kokutai?). Does anyone know what this group was, where it operated and when?
 
Thanks
Andrew
 
Re: 14th Air wing D3A1
 
Posted By: Jim Broshot <mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: 14th Air wing D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 5:57 p.m.
 
In Response To: 14th Air wing D3A1 (Andrew Johnson)
 
To add to David's posting, this is what I have compiled:
12A. 14 Kokutai 6 Apr 1938 formed with T/O:
12 A5M carrier fighters (one unit);
6 carrier bombers (one-half unit);
18 carrier attack planes (one and one-half units)
attached to 5 Kantai 15 Dec 1938 reorganized with T/O:
18 land attack planes (one unit)
18 carrier attack planes (one unit)
Nov 1939 reorganized with T/O:
18 carrier fighters,
9 carrier bombers 15 Sep 1941 disbanded at Hanoi-French Indo-China aircraft: A5M, 4/1938-9/1941
D1A, 1938-1941
D3A, 1938-1941
G3M?
 
NOTE there was a SECOND 14 Kokutai formed 1 Apr 1942, but this was a flying boat and floatplane unit (and eventually was redesignated as 802 Kokutai).
 
Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1
 
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1>
Date: Friday, 7 July 2000, at 8:38 a.m.
 
In Response To: 14th Air wing D3A1 (Andrew Johnson)
 
Aloha Andrew,
The 14 Kokutai operated in China [pre-WWII]. A brief history of the fighter portion of that unit is in the Hata/Izawa book "Nihon Kaigun Sentokitai" [translated as IJN ACES AND FIGHTER UNITS, Naval Institute Press].
 
Cheers,
David Aiken
 
Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1
 
Posted By: Ryan Boerema <mailto:ryann1k2j@aol.com?subject=Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1>
Date: Saturday, 8 July 2000, at 10:04 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: 14th Kokutai D3A1 (David_Aiken)
 
Getting tangetial here, ol Unca Bob of Aviation Usk once commented that the Naval Institute Press had what was essentially the JAAF version of Hata and Izawa's IJN Aces and Fighter Units, but were in no hurry to translate or publish. (He encouraged readers to gently encourage Naval Institute Press -- oops! almost used their initials -- to publish.) Does anyone know anymore about this?
 
Pearl Harbor Val question
 
Posted By: Dan <mailto:mig15@mindspring.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val question>
Date: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
 
I've just come across an issue of SAM that shows a Val with a bright yellow fuselage. However, the illustration doesn't indicate whether
(a) the upper wings were also yellow (like the elevators are)
(b) the fuselage underside was painted yellow as well, including the area in between the lower wings.
Any info on this bright bird much appreciated.
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val question
 
Posted By: Mike Gawell <mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val question>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:05 a.m.
 
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Val question (Dan)
 
The wings are BELIEVED to have been the much mysterious grey green color...same as the fuselage underside. Be aware, that this is based on recollection, not on photographic evidence. (I.E. go for it, and enjoy the journey)
 
Cheers
Mike
 
odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Sunday, 6 August 2000, at 11:21 p.m.
 
Gang,
SAM issue volume 21 number 12 has an article on the Japanese a/c @ Pearl. Two unusual schemes are given for the Val. EI-238 flown by Lt. Comm. Takahashi is shown in two schemes one of which has the complete fuse. in "yellow" with the usual colored cowl and anti-glare panels. The article says that eyewitnesses reported a yellow Val @ Pearl but that this is not confirmed. The second scheme in question is Egusa's BI-231 with "grey" fuse. and what appears to be a red flame pattern on the fuse. This plane supposedly was referred to as "The red horse". the author seems confident that the "red" IS NOT a primer coat showing through due to wear.
Both these schemes are interesting and I would like to know if any of you serious students of Japanese aviation can confirm these two schemes.
 
Thanks,
Mitch Inkster
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Mike Gawell mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:03 a.m.
 
In Response To: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
 
Mitch
This scheme has been floated before, and there is some reason to believe that it may be correct. It was done for rally purposes after the dives. The problem is there is no "hardcore" evidence that would definitively point to this as THE SCHEME. There are eye witness reports, and we KNOW that Eugusa flew a red tailed Val by April. Takahashi was also photographed before he was killed at Coral Sea, but the photo is sadly inconclusive. My PERSONAL opinion is model one, and let the color police give chase. If caught, show them the SAM article as your reference/defense. Just don't let them read the text....many factual errors there.
 
Cheers
Mike
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 1:12 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
 
Hi Mitch (and Mike),
Advice...build as you want and enjoy...then have another standing by when my Japanese sources release their data. I have seen the stuff but can not comment as they have "first rights" and I appreciate their good will to allow me in their loop. Thought I had made that clear the last time.
 
Cheers,
David
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Rob Graham <mailto:reishikisenguy@aol.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 8:53 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (David_Aiken)
 
David:
Thanks for the update on the new material. Are there newly discovered photos, or are these interviews, or anything else? Also, as with the latest stories of the Monogram book (a-HEM...), is there any scheduled printing or release date? I like to plan ahead, as I build slowly. If I start a Val this week, it'll be about 2002 before it's done, and I would like to not finish it 3 days before the earth-shattering news comes out.
GAWWWD, AMS is terrible, ain't it???
Curious in Ft Worth.
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: mike gawell <mailto:rockavenger@hotmail.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Thursday, 10 August 2000, at 10:28 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Rob Graham)
 
All :) (David esp.)
...and here I was about to state to Mitch that David would most likely say about what I had said....GEEZ ya think ya know a guy...... :)
Actually I have 2 Vals in the supply just waiting for the news. I too hope to see it soon. It just re-enforces the pride I have that I can state that "I heard it here first...." Back to the twin SBD-3s...the Acc. Min kit is a beaut!!, and "the Top secret project that has been languishing" (Also known as "I really got to get off my dead butt and finish it.
 
Cheers
Mike
PS David ..Are you involved with the Monogram Book that is breathlessly anticipated?
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Tony Feredo <mailto:aferedo@ibahn.net?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 1:07 a.m.
 
In Response To: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
 
Hi Mitch,
I was suppose to ask a similar question in relation to some "Vals" with "Yellow" wings. During my visit to the Intrepid Museum in NY several years ago, there was a models of the "Akagi" (or Kaga?) depicting it's flight deck during it's launch to attack Pearl Harbor. In the rear portion of the flight deck, there were about two "Vals" with different colors and the one that got my attention was the "yellow colored wings".
I remember reading an article (I forgot the title) but it mentioned the reason why some of the planes had different "colors" was that some of them were plucked out of training in order to compensate the shortage of aircraft for the attack on Pearl and that because of lack of time, they decided to stick with it's "color" scheme. I am looking forward for somebody else to validate this or any other answers to similar queries on the "colorful planes at Pearl".
 
Tony
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 6:16 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Tony Feredo)
 
Hi Tony,
My first thought is that these brightly colored a/c could have been used as assembly ships for the task force similar in nature to the polka dotted B-24s the USAAC used in Europe during large bombing raids.
 
Mitch
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Tony Feredo <mailto:aferedo@ibahn.net?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 9:54 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Mitch Inkster)
 
Yes and I agree with you. In that article (geeezzz, I still cant remember the title or the author??!!!) it also said that these colorful planes also served as lead planes for specific groups or waves in attack formation. Egusa's "Val" had a distinctive colorful tail and so did Fuchida's "Kate" during their raid at Pearl Harbor.
I am interested to read the other ideas and commentaries about our inquiries on these "colorful planes" from our fellow J-Aircraft.com enthusiasts
 
Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl
 
Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mailto:mang521092@aol.com?subject=Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl>
Date: Monday, 7 August 2000, at 10:33 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: odd colored Vals @ Pearl (Tony Feredo)
 
Hiya Tony,
The article is titled The Hawaiian Operation and is written by Peter Scott. Fuchida's Kate is shown with a red tail which in turn has three yellow stripes. One stripe then AI-301 underneath it, then, two more yellow stripes below that.
 
Mabuhuy.
Mitch
 
Pearl Harbor Val Relic Photos/Research Page Update *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val Relic Photos/Research Page Update *PIC*>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 3:35 a.m.
 
Please note that Dave PLUTH has updated the Japanese Aircraft At Pearl Harbor Research page (Note: click on the photographic images to enlarge them). Included are three new Zero color profiles by Don MARSH, a photo of a "Hospital Kate" fragment, and two photos of the dive brake assembly from a Val which is believed to have crashed on the U.S.S. CURTISS.
Additional photos will be periodically posted as they become available. Greg SPRINGER will be contributing the results of his research of Pearl Harbor relics ("Hospital Kate" and the "IIDA Zero" remains) in the NIMITZ Foundation Collection. Photos of other Val crash sites, relic samples of two other Pearl Vals, a candid photo of IIDA with his Zero, and the IIDA Zero crash site remains have been promised by various individuals.
Please note that color photography only gives an "indication" of the color values of the unweathered relics. Analysis by color comparison of the actual unweathered relics to a standard color reference (Munsell or FS 595B), as well as colorimetric, spectrographic, and x-ray analysis of these pieces needs to be done before a more accurate color report may be rendered. More importantly, a determination of a possible color shift of the paint binder needs to be made in order to judge the effect of aging on the present color readings of the pigments used in the clear binder.
Please refer to the sample photo below of the remains from a Val brought down at Pearl Harbor 7 December 1941. Note the lack of a primer coat and that the color is very close to that having been reported officially as I 3 and unofficially described as hairyokushoku "toward amber" or "grey-poupon."
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Question
 
Posted By: Phil <mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Question>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 2:17 p.m.
 
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Val Relic Photos/Research Page Update *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Why is the upper part of the assembly green? I thought all PH Vals were lighter colors.
 
Re: Question
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Question>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:26 p.m.
 
In Response To: Question (Phil)
 
Phil
What you see as "green" in the photo is the translucent aodake/aotake coating on the internal portions of the arm which moved the dive brake. The interior surfaces of the dive brake where primed in the same color. The external parts of the dive brake, like the rest of the aircraft, were finished in a semi-gloss hairyokushoku (gray-green toward amber or I 3) finish with NO primer undercoat. Only the Kates had dark green upper surfaces.
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: Possible Answer
 
Posted By: Mike Quan <mailto:MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net?subject=Re: Possible Answer>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:03 p.m.
 
In Response To: Question (Phil)
 
Hi Phil!
The green part you refer to appears to be an internal stiffener or rib to the (what appears to be a) flap assembly. That's my take on it.
 
Mike Quan
Rockwall, Texas
 
Re: Possible Answer
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Possible Answer>
Date: Tuesday, 12 September 2000, at 4:24 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Possible Answer (Mike Quan)
 
Phil,
Mike is entirely correct. It is part of the internal structure of one of the three support pylons for each dive brake and the color is glossy translucent green. After each part was formed it was sprayed prior to assembly and the tone varied greatly from part to part. In general ribs, formers and stringers were darker in tone than the coating on the skin metal. Streamlined metal fairings were screwed on to the support structure and were removable for maintenance.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC*>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 2:18 p.m.
 
Preliminary examination and analyses of two separate Aichi D3A Val and two Nakajima B5N Kates brought down at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 have resulted in the following information.
 
Three separate metal skin fragments, a nearly complete dive brake assembly, and a sample of fabric have been provided by the TOONEY Family and from the DANN Collection. Todd PEDERSON and Bill WOLF spent considerable time recently in Hawaii examining the Val fragments collected at the time of the crash in a sugar cane field, and others from other sites. The TOONEY Family Collection included a sample of fabric from the control surfaces. PEDERSON reported all were hairyokushoku (gray-green) toward khaki.
 
The fabric sample examined was similar to FS-24201/16350 and the Munsell match was 10 Y 5/1. The metal samples were close to FS-16350 toward FS-16160 or close to Munsell 5 Y 5/3.
 
The DANN Collection included a dive brake assembly from a KAGA Val thought to have crashed on the USS CURTISS. Comparing these pieces to the FS 595B Color Fan samples the dive brake pieces are most like FS-24201 toward FS-16160 (Munsell 5 Y 5/4). Both Val sets of relics still had the original gloss paint and no evidence of primer undercoat. The reverse sides of the pieces were aotake/aodake translucent green.
 
An analysis of the Hospital Kate fragments by Greg SPRINGER in the NIMITZ Museum Collection and another fragment from Dan HIPPLE/LANSDALE Collections revealed that the Kate had been painted hairyokushoku (gray green) or FS-24201/16350 (Munsell 7.5 Y 6/2) on the wing upper and lower surfaces. The wing upper surfaces were then overpainted with a dark green FS-34077 (Munsell 5 GY 3/1). Greg SPRINGER got readings which included FS-34079 for the dark green. Again, as in the Val samples, there was no evidence of a primer coat. Another Kate fragment in the Stan COHEN collection is natural metal and the sample is so small it may have lost its original paint top coat. The reverse side of all the Kate samples were aotake/aodake translucent blue-green.
 
Preliminary conclusions are that the Vals and Kates which participated in the Pearl Harbor attack were painted in colors similar to the Zeros (with the exception that the Kates had varying degrees of dark green over the upper surfaces).
 
Is it possible that the tendency of the Vals or Kates to appear in this, as David AIKEN aptly described as "grey poupon," livery (Japanese Color Standards I3) caused some observers to describe this color as a "yellow" in the early morning light?
 
The only other fragment of a Val examined was one recovered several years ago which, due to severe oxidation appears to be a chalky gray finish. The fragments in the studies cited above have all been sheltered from any weathering and stored since collected in December 1941.
 
Dave PLUTH will shortly be posting photos of these relics on the Pearl Harbor Research page.
 
Jim Lansdale
P.S. The scan below is from a fragment of the HIRANO Zero from Todd PEDERSON. This color is close to the original hue of the Val pieces.
 
Pearl Harbor Downed Aircraft
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: Claus Krüger <mailto:rana24@freenet.de?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 12:46 p.m.
 
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Hello to all,
the color greygreen for Aichi Val's is a great surprise to me.MA 406 give's in the Text behind the Aichi color chip a description-a little darker as Mitsubishi. The text behind the Mitsubishi Gray say's-a Gray without
any Blue or Green. Is my Translation incorrect or is the colordescription in
MA 406 wrong ?
Who can give me some help ?
 
Best Regards Claus
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (Claus Krüger)
 
Claus
Colors used by many artists and authors in the past have been based on opinion or on previous color art, not actual color comparisons to real relics from aircraft. The color studies conducted by MIKESH, OWAKI, SPRINGER, THORPE, TOEWS, and myself are based on actual pieces of aircraft, not what someone's interpretation of what the colors should have been or written descriptions of the aircraft hues.
Vals may have been in so-called "Mitsubishi gray," as reported in MA No.406, however, the actual relics analyzed were in the colors reported.
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: Phil <mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 8:26 p.m.
 
In Response To: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
So, is this to say that a model depicting an early war Val/Kate should be in the gray/green? I had been under the impression that many or most Kates had natural metal or alclad undersurfaces, and may have had green patches over natural metal on the upper surfaces. Should this be the gray/green instead?
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Tuesday, 5 September 2000, at 4:38 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
 
Phil
You wrote:
 
"So, is this to say that a model depicting an early war Val/Kate should be in the gray/green?"
 
Unfortunately, for all those who have built models of these aircraft in the past, it would appear that the standard color for Vals and Kates at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack was overall hairyokushoku (gray-green or "grey poupon"). Kates were overpainted, prior to the attack, in dark green upper surfaces. Some sources claim that brown was also used and several artists have depicted this scheme. Thus far, no relics have shown evidence of brown paint. The difference in mottling on the upper surfaces of Kates, as evidenced by b/w photography, is probably due to the varied thickness of the hastily applied dark-green paint over top of the hairyokushoku.
 
The variance in the hairyokushoku hues (i.e. gray-green to a somewhat "tan" gray-green) may have been due to different paint suppliers or paint specifications by aircraft manufacturer. Many early Vals and Kates were either NMF or painted silver (particularly those used in the campaign in China or in French Indo-China). It is also quite possible that some Kates had NMF lower surfaces at Pearl Harbor, but this is not certain. Check out the SORYU Kate photo in FAOW No.32 on page 44 (bottom).
One Val relic recovered from the Solomons did have aluminum paint on the lower surfaces, but the remaining relics of Vals from this theater do have hairyokushoku (gray-green toward khaki) lower surfaces. This color is very much like what OWAKI-san posted as the Official Color Standards color called "I 3."
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: Phil <mailto:Phil_Graf@baylor.edu?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Tuesday, 5 September 2000, at 9:51 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (James F. Lansdale)
 
This helps immensely. I have only three questions left. One, what is "FAOW"? I've always enjoyed modeling Japanese subjects, but I'm not too current on some of the resources. Two, what paint currently on the market most closely matches this "grey poupon" color? Thirdly, and I know this is less relevant, but how were late war Kates painted? Was the underside color the same, or was it changed? Thanks for all your help.
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 4:45 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
 
Hi Phil
FAOW (FAW or FAOTW) represents "Famous Aircraft Of the World" series published by BUNRINDO (of Koku Fan fame) and some are available through HLJ or Aviation USK. I believe No.32 is out of print.
I am unfamiliar with the commercial paints which are similar to the varied hues of hairyokushoku. Some folks, like Greg SPRINGER and Ryutaro NAMBU, have formulated their own versions which are truly remarkable! Perhaps they will share their "recipes" with you.
I have not seen any mid to late war Kate relic samples, but they probably were dark green upper with blue-gray (J2) lower surfaces. Vals, as evidenced by relics I have examined, were darkgreen upper with blue-gray (J2) lower surfaces for those manufactured during late 1942 on. Between February to late 1942 the lower surfaces of Vals were either hairyokushoku or some other field color. I have examined at least one early model Val relic from the Solomons which still had the aluminum paint on the lower surfaces from the pre-war period.
 
IHTH
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: Elephtheriou George <mailto:elgeorge@otenet.gr?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 7:12 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (James F. Lansdale)
 
Konnichi wa,
a recipe I haven't tried yet, found in Model Art 510, suggests a mix with Tamiya XF-49 (Chaki) 60%, XF-21 (Sky)40% and a little white, black, yellow and green.
Mr. Lansdale, what is your oppinion whether a clear gloss varnish was applied on top of this color or not?
 
domo,
George
 
Re: Paint Schemes/No Varnish Top Coat
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Paint Schemes/No Varnish Top Coat>
Date: Wednesday, 6 September 2000, at 8:57 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (Elephtheriou George)
 
Hi George
You ask, "(Was) a clear gloss varnish ... applied on top of this color?"
There has been much controversy regarding this alleged practice on the A5M Claude. No physical proof for this practice was ever produced. The "Kamikaze" sponsored by the Asahi Shimbun, which did an around the world good will tour during the 1930s, did have a very smooth clear top coat, but this practice does not appear to have been carried out on military aircraft.
I have physically examined nearly two hundred samples of IJA/NAF aircraft relics. Only one sample had evidenced a varnish top coat. However, I believe that the owner applied this coat on top of the Zero access panel after the war to preserve the paint below and it was not done at the factory.
During the early war years, the paint used by the Japanese was a clear binder to which a pigment was added. The gloss produced was the nature of the binder. Later, the Japanese added talc/clay to the paint mixture in order to produce a non-specular or matte finish. This paint formula was first tested by the Yokosuka technical test center in December 1941 (Yoko Report No.0266)
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors>
Date: Monday, 4 September 2000, at 9:32 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Pearl Harbor Val/Kate Colors (Phil)
 
Hi Phil,
Several artifacts from B5N2s off the carrier 'Kaga' which were shot down at PH and which are held in storage by the Nimitz Museum in Fredricksburg have a glossy base coat matched to FS 16350 or a slightly lighter shade of same. Top sides are very flat dark greens in the range FS 34079, 34064, 34084. Baylor eh? Don't do much dancin' do ya'll? ;^)
Cheers! (Oops, sorry. You're in Waco.)
 
Greg (Austin-based wise guy)
 
Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jon Parshall <mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Friday, 30 June 2000, at 3:36 p.m.
 
Anybody know the internal fuel capacity of the Zero, Kate, and Val? I'll take liters, gallons, pounds, drams, pints... whatever, and I ain't real picky about the specific model, either.
 
Thanks,
-jon parshall-
www.CombinedFleet.com
 
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jim Broshot <mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Saturday, 1 July 2000, at 8:44 p.m.
 
In Response To: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
 
This is from Aircraft in Profile #240 "Aichi D3A ('Val') & Yokosuka D4Y ('Judy') Carrier Bombers of the IJNAF (M. C. Richards and Donald S. Smith):
Fuel Capacity of D3A
"Internal 1,079 liters (235 Imperial gallons) in five unprotected tanks; two in each wing, one under pilot's seat, all containing 92 octane petrol. In starboard wing root, a small fuel tank (100 octane) for take of; 58 liter (25.8 Imperial gal.). One 60 liter (13.2 Imp.gal.) oil tank behind the engine."
Will dig out data on Zero and Kate.
 
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jon Parshall <mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 1:19 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jim Broshot)
 
You The Man. I'm guessing the Kate carried about 180 gallons. I subtracted her empty weight (2,279kg) from her loaded weight (3,800kg), plus payload and all that and got about 496kg. of fuel.
Loaded: 3,800
Empty: 2,279 -
Payload: 800 -
Crew: 225 - (figuring 75kg./165lb. per crewman x 3 crew)
= Fuel 496 kg.
Specific density of gasolines are around .74, so 496 kilos of fuel is 496/.74= 671 liters. 671 liters is 177 gallons.
 
-jon-
 
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jim Broshot <mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 5:58 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
 
Thanks. Got tired of playing Diablo II, so A6M fuel capacity:
A6M1 - internal: 518 liters (114 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
A6M2 Model 21 - ditto
A6M2-N: internal: ditto
auxiliary tank in central float: 325 liters (71.5 Imp.gal.)
A6M2-K: internal: 380 liters (83.6 Imp.gal.)
from "The Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero-Sen" (by Rene J. Francillon, PhD) in
AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME SIX (Martin C. Windrow, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1970 (No ISBN)
A6M3-Model 22: internal: 570 liters (125.4 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
A6M3-Model 32: internal: 480 liters (105.6 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: same as above
from "The Mitsubishi A6M3 Zero-Sen ("Hamp")" (Rene J. Francillon, PhD) in
AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME EIGHT (Martin C. Windrow, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1970 (No ISBN)
A6M5 Model 52: internal: 540 liters (189 Imp.gal.)
drop tank: 330 liters (72.6 Imp.gal.)
NOTE: A6M7 Model 63 carried bomb on center line rack, had 2x 150 liter (33 Imp.gal.) wing-mounted drop tanks
A6M8 Model 54 also carried center line bomb rack, had 2x 350 liter (77 Imp.gal )
wing mounted drop tanks. From "Mitsubishi A6M5 to A6M8 Zero-Sen ('Zeke 52')" (M. C. Richards and Donald S. Smith) in AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME 12 (Charles W. Cain, General Editor);
Garden City NY: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1974 (ISBN (US) 0-385-09670-4)
 
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jon Parshall <mailto:jonp@is.com?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 7:36 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jim Broshot)
 
Thank you, and thank you for some of the citation data; I neglected to mention that I need that, too. Would it be asking too much to request the complete cite for this Val information? I went looking on Amazon for other books of this series to grab the cite that way, but no luck. Thanks; I really appreciate it!
 
-jon parshall-
Imperial Japanese Navy Page
http://www.combinedfleet.com/
 
Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A
 
Posted By: Jim Broshot <mailto:jbroshot@socket.net?subject=Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A>
Date: Sunday, 2 July 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Fuel capacity of A6M, B5N, D3A (Jon Parshall)
 
Full cite is:
"Aichi D3A ('Val') & Yokosuka D4Y ('Judy') Carrier Bombers of the IJNAF (M. C. Richards and Donald S. Smith) in AIRCRAFT IN PROFILE - VOLUME 13 (Charles W. Cain, General Editor); Garden City, New York: Doubleday & Company, Inc., 1974 (ISBN (USA) 0-385-09671-2).
Have privilege of owning all thirteen hardbound volumes (it took 30+ years to get them all).
"Kate" Profile (No. 141 in Volume 6, and written by Dr. M. F. Hawkins), alas, has NO data on B5N capacity except to state that, "integral fuel tanks, incorporating wing upper and lower skin, were dropped between the main and rear spar of the center section and fastened by a hinge arrangement along the edges."
Will check the A6M stuff when I have time later.
 
D3A VAL 22 "35-209"
 
Posted By: Anthony Noel <mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Saturday, 30 September 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
 
Greetings:
The decal sheet for my FUJIMI D3A VAL 22 includes a set of tail-codes for a machine presumably assigned to the 35th Kokutai, "35-209". The profile in the kit calls for dark green camouflage extending over the nose deck and engine cowling. Are these markings accurate for a VAL 22? I thought that black engine cowlings were standard for the VAL.
My only reference for the 35th Kokutai is an OOB dated 14 July 1942 with twelve D3A model 11 VAL'S assigned to this unit in the Dutch East Indies (Dr. FRANCILLON'S "Japanese Navy Bombers" Doubleday 1971). What happened to the 35th Kokutai after the November 1942 reorganization? Were there any VAL'S in the South Pacific prior to mid-1943?
Finally, what about the "data panel" stencil carried on a dark green camouflaged VAL? Would the stencil have a grey background as seen on Mitsubishi-built factory camouflaged dark green A6M ZEKE'S?
Any help is sincerely appreciated!
 
Re: D3A VAL 22 "35-209"
 
Posted By: Tom Hall <mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Friday, 6 October 2000, at 1:13 p.m.
 
In Response To: D3A VAL 22 "35-209" (Anthony Noel)
 
Dear Mr. Noel,
There were lots of Vals in the SW Pacific Area. Some bombed Rabaul in January 1942. However,
Model 22s were first deployed around January 1943. They were important in the fight for the Solomons,
appeared on Japanese carriers, and flew suicide missions.
I don't think Fujimi put a very good selection of decals into that kit.
 
Re: D3A VAL 22 "35-209"
 
Posted By: Anthony Noel <mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 4:35 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 "35-209" (Tom Hall)
 
Dear Mr. Hall
 
Sir:
I quite agree with your assessment of the decal selection included in the FUJIMI 1/72 D3A VAL 22 kit.
The situation is particularly vexing as the Model 22 comprised the main production variant of the VAL series. In any case, I've found very little to go on in terms of historically appropriate camouflage and/or unit markings and tail-codes for the VAL 22. The quality of the few published photographs I've seen are decidedly poor, making any reasonable consideration of what front-line combat unit Model 22 VAL'S actually looked like next to impossible.
Any help in this matter is , as always, sincerely appreciated!
Respectfully, Anthony
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Tom Hall <mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Monday, 9 October 2000, at 7:08 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 "35-209" (Anthony Noel)
 
Dear Anthony,
I wish I could sell you Asahi Journal 3,2, but for the time being it isn't available. It had over 80 Val profiles. Another source would be Famous Airplanes of the World 33 of 1992. It was on Val.
Unfortunately, many of the tail markings were in amber or red for the Model 22. I have not decided yet what kit I am going to rob for such!
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Anthony Noel <mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 12:06 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
 
Dear Tom,
Thank you for the information, I'll try and track down the FAOW issue you have cited.
Red or amber tail codes are exactly what I would expect for an operational IJN aircraft in the late war period. However, I'm still not sure about the engine cowling being painted camouflage green instead of black?
Respectfully, Anthony
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Tom Hall <mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 2:50 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
 
Black on a Model 22 cowl would have been exceptional. I believe the factory treatment was dark green for
the upper nose, and most photos show same.
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
 
Hi Tom,
Nimitz's Val 22 cowling is black. I think they transitioned to green during the production run.
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Tom Hall <mailto:hall41@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:28 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
 
Interesting!
Have you ever checked what's underneath the black?
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 3:59 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Tom Hall)
 
Hi Tom,
It's pretty worn down and I think only red primer is beneath. That cowling is on s/n 3105. I will try to check it further on Friday. The prop blades from s/n 3357 show unfinished metal with one red warning stripe on the front face and brown on the rear. The spinner was dark green.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Anthony Noel <mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 6:17 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
 
Greetings,
The relevant information on VAL 22 camouflage details are quite interesting. Am I correct in assuming that the unfinished metal prop blades on s/n 3357 belonged to a Model 11 VAL, or was this machine in fact a Model 22 VAL?
Any information on land based units operating the VAL 22 in the Philippines and/or Taiwan in 1944 and 1945 ?
As always, any help is gratefully appreciated!
 
Anthony
 
Re: D3A VAL 22 Air Units
 
Posted By: Allan <mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 Air Units>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 5:26 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
 
Tony,
With the reorganization on July 10, 1944, all 500 air units were deactivated. I know of no organized unit that operated from September of 1944 except that of 954 
Kokutai.
 
Al
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Thursday, 12 October 2000, at 7:58 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Anthony Noel)
 
Hello Anthony,
Val s/n 3357 was a type 22 of the 582nd Ku operating out of Rabaul, possibly in the last week of December, 1943. At this time I believe the 582nd was only operating Aichi 99 type 22s. The prop and tail section were recovered from Cape Mensing, New Britain. The aircraft had burned after a crash into trees. A .50 bullet hole is in one of the prop blades. Cape Mensing is on the north coast just east of Cape Gloucester. Tail code of this aircraft is 82-248. During the landings at Cape Gloucester a large number of Aichi 99s were involved in attacks on the landing force and suffered heavy losses. Among those scoring on these attacks was Tommy McGuire. One of his victories is portrayed on the cover of the Squadron 'P-38 Lightning in Action' No. 109. Sorry, I don't have any info on Vals in the locations or time periods you requested.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Anthony Noel <mailto:anoel@lonestar.utsa.edu?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 5:14 p.m.
 
In Response To: (Greg Springer)
 
Hello Greg,
Thanks for the information. I must say that I'm not surprised to see VAL 22 s/n 3357 as having been assigned to the 582nd Kokutai out of Rabaul. Now I'll need to make up a set of 1/72 scale "82-248" tail-codes!
 
Sincerely,
Anthony
 
Re: D3A VAL 22
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22>
Date: Friday, 13 October 2000, at 4:02 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
 
Hi Tom,
I closely examined the cowling of the Val 22 this morning. There is no coat between the black and the red primer. The black also covers cowling inner surfaces and the firewall.
James Long's monograph on that plane states that the build date for it is estimated to be Jan. 17, 1943 and that s/n 3357 was built on August 15, 1943.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: D3A VAL 22/Propeller Colors
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22/Propeller Colors>
Date: Wednesday, 11 October 2000, at 4:27 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: D3A VAL 22 (Greg Springer)
 
Greg
You write about the NIMITZ Museum Val that, "The prop blades from s/n 3357 show unfinished metal with one red warning stripe on the front face and brown on the rear."
This further supports the evidence now available that the early props with polished metal forward surfaces had dark brown rear surfaces rather that the often quoted "black."
Thank you for the "bits and pieces" information!!! May I have the closest FS number for the brown (Munsell if possible)?
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: D3A VAL 22 "35-209"
 
Posted By: Allan Alsleben <mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: D3A VAL 22 '35-209'>
Date: Saturday, 30 September 2000, at 7:37 p.m.
 
In Response To: D3A VAL 22 "35-209" (Anthony Noel)
 
The 35th Kokutai was assigned to Makassar, 23rd Special Base Force - 2nd Southern Expeditionary Fleet. With the Reorganization in November of '42, it became the 956 Kokutai which went to Rabaul, which later was disbanded at Rabaul.
It would appear that the 22 Model was correct for this unit.
Al
 
35th Kokutai "Vals"
 
Posted By: Mike Yeo <mailto:ymike@singnet.com.sg?subject=35th Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Tuesday, 12 December 2000, at 1:31 p.m.
 
This thread was posed on this board a while back, unfortunately I forgot to save the information before the "board cleaning" carried out a while back so I'll just have to ask again, I'm afraid.
When did the 35th Ku operate D3A2 "Vals" out of Makassar, Celebes and what sort of operations did they take part in during this period? And also, are the red tail numbers on Green camoflage as given by the Fujimi 1/72 D3A2 standard practice during this period?
 
Again, thanks in advance,
Mike
 
Re: 35th Kokutai "Vals"
 
Posted By: Allan Alsleben <mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: 35th Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Wednesday, 13 December 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
 
In Response To: 35th Kokutai "Vals" (Mike Yeo)
 
Hello Mike,
35th Ku was formed at Takao Formosa on February 1st 1942 and was assigned to Makassar on the 6th of the month. It had detachments briefly at Jugjakarta, Balikpapan, Kupang, Kendari and Waingapu. Their principle assignment was Anti-Submarine Patrol and assist in clearing pockets of resistance such as the Australians on Timor. They were also partially responsible for the destruction of HMAS Voyager after she was grounded at Betano Bay, Timor. The 35th became 956 Ku on November 1st at which time 10 of her 12 aircraft were loaded aboard Unyo for arrival at Rabaul on November 10th. This unit was soon deactivated at Rabaul, being absorbed by 582 Ku.
 
Al
 
Re: 35th Kokutai "Vals"
 
Posted By: Garth <mailto:garth.o'connell@awm.gov.au?subject=Re: 35th Kokutai 'Vals'>
Date: Friday, 15 December 2000, at 6:49 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: 35th Kokutai "Vals" (Allan Alsleben)
 
Al,
That is extremely interesting, as I am researching the 2/2 Independent Company (Commando) who operated behind Japanese lines in Portugese Timor (now newly Independent East Timor) during 1942 and 43.
In their memoirs they describe the regular recon flights flown over and around Timor by Dinah's and possibly Val's - searching for their whereabouts.
I would love to hear any other stories and references to Japanese vs Australian forces in WWII that you may have!
 
Kind regards,
Garth
 
Australian War Memorial
 
Re: Timor and Elsewhere
 
Posted By: Allan Alsleben <mailto:Wildcat42@AOL.com?subject=Re: Timor and Elsewhere>
Date: Saturday, 16 December 2000, at 9:47 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: 35th Kokutai "Vals" (Garth)
 
Hello Garth,
The information derived came from the following:
Department of Defence - Naval History Directorate - Maritime Studies Progam in Canberra
On the Japanese side:
War Diaries from the 24th Base Force and the 23rd Koku Sentai plus Mongraph #116 and the published "Raids on Australia" 1997 by National Institute for Defense Studies in Tokyo. Also various monographs "Australia North" published by NAV (USSBS) from IJA interrogations.
Timor was just one part of the equation to the Japanese. There was Tanimbar, Meruake and the Kai/Aru Islands in the Banda Sea, and they all played a part. I don't claim to be an expert on Timor, only gaining information about the events as they happened.
However, at the time of HMAS Armidale's sinking, the Japanese were in the process of reoccuppying Tanimbar on November 10th 1942. So, in order to understand what was happenening on Timor, one must also learn what was happening elsewhere. General McArthur didn't want to become involved in Timor and stated as such to General Blamey (AWM). Really, there is much information available to you in Australia than I could get to, except from Japan. If you wish for a complete breakdown on the the Japanese occupations of the above, I can supply that information, but my knowledge of 2/2 and other units (Sparrow Force) are limited. My information is strictly NAVAL and very little Army. If you feel that this information is of value to you, contact me off-line.
 
HTH - Al
Al
 
The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three *PIC*>
Date: Sunday, 22 October 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
 
"A flight of three enemy aircraft (Aichi D3A1 Vals) made a forced landing on the 3rd September, 1942, on the beach of Table Bay near the village of Deba, Papua, New Guinea, Lat.10/17'S., Long.149/10'E....The six Japanese flyers who composed the three crews attempted to destroy the aircraft by burning the cockpits and surrounding section. Six days later the Japanese all were killed in a skirmish with native police, under the direction of an A.N.G.A.U. officer, after attempts to have them surrender were to no avail."
HQAAFSWPAA Director of Intelligence, Enemy Material Report No.50, 24 October 1942
The three Aichi D3A1 Vals were:
s/n 3114 [Q-219]
s/n 3110 [Q-216]
s/n 3287 [Q-218] ex [-273]
All three were from the No.2 kaigun kokutai and were painted dark green above and gray on the lower surfaces.
 
Jim Lansdale
 
Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three
 
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three>
Date: Tuesday, 24 October 2000, at 3:27 p.m.
 
In Response To: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Hello Jim,
Thanks for this posting. I've always been wondering which serial numbers went with which tail codes in the case of these three Vals. Interestingly, Q-218 still carried the 73 part of its former code on the front of its wheel spats.
For anyone that is looking for more background on these planes see Peter Smith's book Aichi D3A1/2 Val pages 136-138.
 
Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three
 
Date: Thursday, 2 November 2000, at 7:49 p.m.
In Response To: Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three (Ryan Toews)
 
Ryan,
Would you have any ISBN numbers for this book you mentioned?
 
Thanks,
Garth
 
Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three
 
Posted By: Ryan Toews <mailto:ritoews@mb.sympatico.ca?subject=Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three>
Date: Thursday, 2 November 2000, at 8:42 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: The Sad Fate Of The Deba Three (Garth)
 
Hello Garth,
The Val book is Peter C. Smith, Aichi D3A1/2 Val, The Crowood Press, 1999, ISBN 1 86126 278 7. For the Deba Val account Smith also cites a source that may be available in Australia - Robert Kendall Piper, 'Dive-bomber "blow-ins"', Australasian Post, 2 January 1986. Hope this helps.
Ryan
 
Modelling a PH Val
 
Posted By: Andrew Johnson <mailto:ajo@ceh.ac.uk?subject=Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Wednesday, 24 January 2001, at 4:12 a.m.
 
Dear Colleagues
I am having great fun modelling the 1/48 Hasegawa Val with the CMK cockpit. As usual some questions emerge:
1) I suspect the Vals only carried the centreline bomb to Pearl. If you want to leave the wings clean do you leave the brackets only for the wing bombs?
2) For the centreline bomb is it grey with a yellow ring around the nose?
3) I assume it is OK to add the underfuselage DF housing?
4) I intend to use the late lamented aeromaster acrylic navy grey (ami-ro) colour but wonder if it is too grey. should I add a yellow undercoat to make it more caramel?
5)The cowl back to the cockpit is blue-black. Should I mask the fuselage to the exhaust pipes using masking tape (ie a straight line) which conforms to the curve of the fuselage, or should I make a curved mask?
Fortunately I picked up an aeromaster Tora sheet.
 
Thanks
Andrew
 
Re: Modelling a PH Val
 
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 5:29 p.m.
 
In Response To: Modelling a PH Val (Andrew Johnson)
 
Hi Andrew.
1) studs for wing bombs only
2) answer on Nats page
3) RDF was a retractable item, lowered when in use
4) color depends on the carrier: I3 on most; J3 on Akagi
5) use curved mask
Cheers,
David
 
Re: Retract RDF: not!
 
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: Retract RDF: not!>
Date: Monday, 29 January 2001, at 8:41 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Modelling a PH Val (David_Aiken)
 
Aloha All,
In this morning's e-mail, Greg Springer noted that, in his investigation of the VAL 22 at the Admiral Nimitz Museum, he could not find a retract mechanism of the RDF. He asked me to re-look at my copy of the original VAL 11 manual for my source of such. I can see quite easily that my mind was on the Super Bowl! The manual gives the type RDF and nothing on any retractable devices.
Gomen nasai,
Cheers,
David Aiken
 
Re: Modelling a PH Val
 
Posted By: Amos H. Terrell <mailto:ATerrell@KScable.com?subject=Re: Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 1:40 p.m.
 
In Response To: Modelling a PH Val (Andrew Johnson)
 
Hi Andrew,
As an alternative to the AM grey, you might consider a mix a received from Greg Springer : 50% MM Sac Bomer Tan and 50% MM White. This gives a nice "caramel" tan color and since AM is no more, is certainly easier to find.
 
HTH
Amos H. Terrell, Jr
 
Re: Modelling a PH Val
 
Posted By: Mike Quan <mailto:MnkQuan@worldnet.att.net?subject=Re: Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 8:46 a.m.
 
In Response To: Modelling a PH Val (Andrew Johnson)
 
Hello Andrew,
A lot of these answers are culled from the discussion on the Nats Board home page where the group is building the Pearl Harbor Attackers.
1) It was determined that the PH Vals had the wing racks deleted, probably in the interests of weight and performance.
2) Please do a search on the Nats page for this information. It was discussed, but I do not recall the answer. I recall gray is correct, but check on the yellow for the nose ring. In Model Art #573 "Pearl Harbor", the model and illustration depicts a dark gray bomb with no nose ring.
3) No underfuselage DF housing is depicted in photos of the Vals during the flight to and back from the attack, (in MA #573).
4) Sounds like a good idea. The AM gray IS too 'gray'.
5) The demarcation appears to be a curved line.
 
Good luck on your project!
cheers, Mike Quan
 
Re: Modelling a PH Val
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Modelling a PH Val>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 4:31 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Modelling a PH Val (Mike Quan)
 
Mike -
I would like to suggest a slight amendment to your reply. Based on e-conversations that I have had with David Aiken and photos and vidoes that I have seen, the PH Vals did have their wing racks in place. However, they were empty for the PH attack.
FWIW
- Grant
 
Re: studs for racks ONLY
 
Posted By: David_Aiken <mailto:David_Aiken@hotmail.com?subject=Re: studs for racks ONLY>
Date: Sunday, 28 January 2001, at 5:10 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Modelling a PH Val (Grant Goodale)
 
Hi Grant,
I see I got you confused, only the studs for the wing rack were present, not the actual wing rack.
Cheers,
David
 
D3A1 Val Color
 
Posted By: Eugene Hall <mailto:tghall@internetcds.com?subject=D3A1 Val Color>
Date: Wednesday, 14 February 2001, at 10:57 p.m.
 
Can anyone give the correct paint mix using Model Master paints for the overall gray color for an early D3A1 Val.
Thanks,
Gene
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: D3A1 Val Color>
Date: Thursday, 15 February 2001, at 6:39 p.m.
 
In Response To: D3A1 Val Color (Eugene Hall)
 
Gene -
Try the following:
10 parts RLM 02
3 parts flat white
HTH
Val interior colors
 
Posted By: Jim Obermeyer <mailto:slickobe@aol.com?subject=Val interior colors>
Date: Wednesday, 25 April 2001, at 6:49 p.m.
 
Can anyone tell me what color the interior is in the D3A1 'VAL,? I'm making a PH Val and all I've been able to come up with is "Bamboo blue-green"? or "some strange green color"? Any FS matches known for the interiors and are the insides of the wheel spats the same as the interior? Thanks,Jim O.
 
Re: Val interior colors
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: Val interior colors>
Date: Thursday, 26 April 2001, at 12:03 p.m.
 
In Response To: Val interior colors (Jim Obermeyer)
 
Hi Jim,
Rich's artifact is the correct color although the green looks a bit light in the first jpeg. The color is more accurate in the scan on the link. Use Testors Model Master Enamel FS 34095 Medium Field Green. Insides of the spats are blue aotake. HTH.
 
Cheers!
Greg
 
Re: Val interior colors
 
Posted By: Pete Chalmers <mailto:pchalmers@carolina.rr.com?subject=Re: Val interior colors>
Date: Friday, 27 April 2001, at 6:41 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Val interior colors (Jim Obermeyer)
 
If you can't find the Testors MM 1786 color, FS 34102 is VERY VERY close to FS 34095 - next to it on the Fan Deck 8^)- and there are MANY close equivs to this color, including:
Humbrol 117
Gunze 73
Gunze 303
PollyScale 505390
Testors MM 1713
Floquil 303343
Although the Floquil Military Enamels have been discontinued, many retailers and E-tailers still have some of the "less popular" colors, including:
Dark Green 303042 ( about FS 34095 )
Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines
 
Posted By: Andrew Monroe <mailto:amonroe@spp.org?subject=Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines>
Date: Friday, 20 July 2001, at 8:27 a.m.
 
I've noticed that several of the 'Vals' I have looked at have red lines on the tail. Do all vals have this? What purpose did it serve
TIA
Andrew
 
Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines
 
Posted By: Bill Sanborn <mailto:bsanborn@psemc.com?subject=Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines>
Date: Friday, 20 July 2001, at 9:03 a.m.
 
In Response To: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines (Andrew Monroe)
 
Those are drift indicator lines for navigation over long open water flights. They are set at 5 degree intervals originating from a point in the rear cockpit. A dye marker or similar device (smoke maybe) would be dropped into the ocean. After a give distance or time the drift of the flight path would be measured and the navigation corrected.
Only light colored Vals used red. Green Vals used white. The stripes may or may not be present (according to some sources) and may or may not cover the full width of the upper part of the horizontal. The lines seemed to have shortened or been left off more as the war dragged on.
My personal opinion is that they look neat so I put them on. Check your sources to find out if they can be verified for the particular plane you are modelling. A Modelling tip: I use Woodland Scenes dry transfer stripes to put the drift indicators on. These are usually found at Railroad modelling outlets.
Bill
 
Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines>
Date: Friday, 20 July 2001, at 9:36 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines (Bill Sanborn)
 
Bill -
I have also heard that they were used as "aim off" marks for the rear gunner as a warning to help prevent shooting up his own fin and rudder.
I believe that some of these marks were also yellow.
I have not had much luck with Woodland Scenes directly onto a model. I burnish them down onto a piece of decal paper and then coat them with Microscale Liquid Decal Film. It makes them easier to work with.
Another pain in the neck is getting them aligned properly. I took a sheet of quad ruled paper (or graph paper) and drew a dark cross on the page with the centre of the cross at the center of the page. I then took a protactor and marked out 5 degree angles from the vertical centre line with the cross midpoint being the focus. I then tacked that to a piece of cork board. When it comes time to apply the stripes, place the model on the page and hold it in place with long pins or whatever. It becomes easy to line the model up with the vertical line. Be sure that the tail gunners seat falls directly over the middle junction of the cross. This means that you get (mostly) perfectly aligned drift marks.
 
HTH
- Grant
 
Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines
 
Posted By: Dr Mike Hawkins <mailto:mikeh@samart.co.th?subject=Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines>
Date: Saturday, 21 July 2001, at 8:35 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Aichi 'Val' Tail Lines (Grant Goodale)
 
To: Grant Goodale and all concerned
From: Dr Mike Hawkins
21 July 2001
The radiating lines on the tails of many Japanese aircraft were not, as far as I know, for the benefit of the gunner but for the navigator. They assisted is assesing the angle of drift resulting from winds not directly in the line of flight. This was very important when flying long over water legs with no indication of local wind speed or direction.
Thorpe ( Colour Schemes, Japanese Naval Aircraft) has a photo of a very civilian Lockheed Sirius ( I think) with the same lines on the upper surface of the horizontal tail.
The tail gunners task required assessment of a very dynamic situation with a fighter manoeuvring behind and marks on his own aircraft would have been no help. A mechanical stop to prevent him shooting his own tail off would have been effective in the heat of the moment cf. Doris Miller in the Pearl Harbour film, blazing away at passing Japanese aircraft, with his gun pointing straight at the US Navy ship next door. I can believe that it happened like that !
 
All the best,
Mike Hawkins
 
Tail lines on Val
 
Posted By: Dr Mike Hawkins <mailto:mikeh@samart.co.th?subject=Tail lines on Val>
Date: Thursday, 26 July 2001, at 11:20 p.m.
 
To: j-aircraft Navy message board
From: Dr Mike Hawkins
27 July 2001
I must apologise to all for quoting the wrong reference regarding the radiating lines on the tail of Val and other types. It was not Thorpe's "Japanese Navy Colour schemes and markings" but the similar book by Ian K Baker.
He has a photo of the Lockheed Altair flown by Kingsford Smith with these lines on the tail. He describes how the navigator would throw out a "bomb" containing aliminium powder which would mark the sea surface and enable the angle of drift, due to wind, to be measured.
While this would not enable calculation of wind speed and bearing, it would enable a true heading to be established - until the wind changed.
What a good thing inertial naviggation and GPS have made this unnecessary in a Boeing 747.
It would also suggest that in three seat aircraft such as Kate, the lines should be "focused" on the Navigator position and not the gunner's.
 
All the best,
Mike
 
Re: Tail lines on Val
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: Tail lines on Val>
Date: Friday, 27 July 2001, at 7:31 a.m.
 
In Response To: (Dr Mike Hawkins)
 
Mike -
Then I must amend my earlier post about how to apply these to models. I had the focus under the gunners seat. Probably great for a Val, but not a Kate,
Thanks for your research and insight.
 
- Grant
 
"Val" Flaps
 
Posted By: Rob Killick <mailto:rkillick@mb.sympatico.ca?subject='Val' Flaps>
Date: Wednesday, 5 September 2001, at 4:07 p.m.
 
Hi,
Another "Val" question :)
Were the wing flaps on the "Val" one piece(span-wise) , or were they a two piece design , somewhat like the F4U Corsair ?
I'm using CMK's control surface , aftermarket and the flaps don't seem to sit right , in the wing trailing edge. I have a lot of modelling/aftermarket experience , but my Japanese A/C references are next to nothing. Can anyone help me out ?
TIA
Rob Killick
 
Re: "Val" Flaps
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: 'Val' Flaps>
Date: Wednesday, 5 September 2001, at 5:26 p.m.
 
In Response To: "Val" Flaps (Rob Killick)
 
Rob
I checked the photos and drawings in Peter Smith's Val book and they seem to be one piece.
HTH
Grant
 
Re: "Val" Flaps
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: 'Val' Flaps>
Date: Wednesday, 5 September 2001, at 5:55 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: "Val" Flaps (Grant Goodale)
 
Hi Rob,
Grant is correct. My Maru Mechanic has structural drawings and photos which confirm that. The inboard forward corners of the flaps angle upwards into spaces inside the wings when the flaps are lowered. You'll have to rout out this area to make the resin bits fit or else thin the flaps at the necessary spots. The flap hinge tube is strangely constructed. It parallels the upper surface of the wing dihedral and anchors at the lower surface of the flaps on the inboard end.
Cheers!
Greg
B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41
 
Posted By: Bryan C <mailto:bryanac625@yahoo.com?subject=B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41>
Date: Thursday, 18 October 2001, at 5:55 a.m.
 
Hello All,
I want to do the above listed planes (off of Eagle Strike sheet 48034A). So what are the correct colors fgor both? I was told some time ago to use a mix of RLM 02 Grau for Vals of this period, and that MOST Kates had paint on the undersides. What is correct?
 
Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41>
Date: Thursday, 18 October 2001, at 5:15 p.m.
 
In Response To: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41 (Bryan C)
 
Bryan
For the Val, I would go with Grau 02 plus 25% white for scale effect. As for the Kate, a good match for the lower surfaces would be Tamia Dark Yellow (XF-60) plus 25% white. I would do the upper surfaces in IJN Dark Green with an IJA Brown mottle.
 
HTH
Grant
 
Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41
 
Posted By: Bryan C <mailto:bryanac625@yahoo.com?subject=Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41>
Date: Friday, 19 October 2001, at 5:29 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41 (Grant Goodale)
 
Thanks, Grant... BTW, what is the interior color for the Val? Should I just use the same Nakajima Interior green I did for the Kate or add some yellow to it?
Bryan
 
Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41
 
Posted By: Grant Goodale <mailto:grant.goodale@sympatico.ca?subject=Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41>
Date: Friday, 19 October 2001, at 3:38 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41 (Bryan C)
 
Bryan
When I look in Japanese Aircraft Interiors by Mikesh for the D3A (pages 220 and 221), it is a yellow green with uneven application and a lot of wear. To me, the PollyScale Weyerhauser green would probably a close enough match.
 
HTH
Grant
 
Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41
 
Posted By: Greg Springer <mailto:gspring@ix.netcom.com?subject=Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41>
Date: Friday, 19 October 2001, at 10:11 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: B5N BII-310 & D3A BII-213 of 12/7/41 (Grant Goodale)
 
Hi Grant,
Bob was relying on photos from a heavily weathered aircraft where the yellow portion of the pigment has leached out and built up on the outer surface of the paint. The overall interior color of the Nimitz's Type 99 Model 22 is a dark green which is a match in full scale to Gunze Sangyo Hobby Color #6 Green. I confirmed this by rubbing down the paint at several points in December, 1999. See my photo on page 28 of Asahi Journal, Vol. 4, No. 2. If Weyerhauser Green is a dark green, like FS *4095, then it is correct.
 
Cheers!
Greg
vals during I-GO
 
Posted By: DON WALDO <mailto:dwaldo@travelers.com?subject=vals during I-GO>
Date: Friday, 7 June 2002, at 12:36 p.m.
 
Recent I read an account of the 7 Vals that Jimmy Swett is credited with shooting down over Guadalcanal during the I-GO operation.He describes the Vals as being either "gey-green" or "brownish-grey",they were all "shiny new,factory fresh".Assming these were D3A2'S detached from carriers I quess my question would be whether these colors would be appropriate for D3A2's for this time period.I had assumed bythis time they would all be produced in the standard dark green.I have neve seen a photo of a model 22 in the earlier colors.Of course anything seems to be possible,or maybe model 11's.
 
D3A2 No. 3041
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=D3A2 No. 3041>
Date: Friday, 7 June 2002, at 2:38 p.m.
 
In Response To: vals during I-GO (DON WALDO)
 
Don
Losses were 1 from Junyo (target: ships off Lunga Point), 1 from Hiyo (transports in Sealark Channel), 3 from Zuikaku (vessels at anchor off Tulagi plus one large vessel [Kanawha] sailing, and 3 from 582 Ku (vessels sailing in the vicinity of Tulagi).
Total fighter claims included 12 dive bombers. Ships' gunners were credited with 11 aircraft but they were pretty general as to type (claimed some "Nates"). Of the dive bombers lost two crashed close to ships off Lunga or Sealark Channel (not where Swett was flying) and in fact the crew of one of these crashed bombers was killed by small arms when they refused to surrender.
Of the seven remaining aircraft two crashed up the Slot away from Tulagi-Guadalcanal. The pilot of one was captured. He denied being hit by fighters and said he thought his aircraft was damaged by fragments from an explosion on the ground. Documents recording damage on the other aircraft indicated that while it had been hit by 13 mm[.50 cal.] fire, these hits inflicted superficial damage on the wingtip and fuselage. Fatal damage was a 20mm hit in the engine [not fired from an F4F].
That leaves five aircraft for Swett. Most of the aircraft he attacked (excepting the last which is possibly the aircraft mentioned above with 13mm hits) were attacked over Tulagi harbor. Most of these aircraft were also under fire from ships and small craft in the harbor or a nearby river.
Three of these were observed to crash near the Maliali River by Niagra and Rail which ships had these aircraft under fire and after they had braved AA over Tulagi harbor.
Only April 7th crash report I seem to have handy at the moment is for an aircraft crashed on the northwest coast of Florida Island and therefore likely to be a Swett victim (or at least one of his claims). This was a type 99 carrier bomber model 22, s/n 3041: "(1) The fuselage and top surface of the wings are camoflaged a dirty green color. The lower surface of the wings and fuselage is green. A red circle 4 ft. in diameter is painted on both the upper and lower surfaces of each wingtip. A smaller red circle is painted on both sides of the fuselage
near the tail section."
"(2) The numbers 1-204 are painted on the left side of the vertical stabilizer and on the right side of the vertical stabilizer are the numbers 204 in red. The rudder being destroyed part of the numbers are missing, however, the full designation is believed to be 1-204."
Don't know the distinction between green and dirty green.
No doubt others will help complete this portrait.
Rick
 
IGO Vals
 
Posted By: Andrew Obluski <mailto:aoba41@yahoo.com?subject=IGO Vals>
Date: Saturday, 8 June 2002, at 8:30 a.m.
 
In Response To: D3A2 No. 3041 (richard dunn)
 
Rick as always superb study
I just would like to add that Lt Tatsuo TAKAHATA - 582 Ku Buntaicho was killed in this attack.
BTW Really love to see summary of Val and Betty losses of ships and units for IGO. Hope you would find something
Greetings
Andrew
 
Shipping attack results
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=Shipping attack results>
Date: Saturday, 8 June 2002, at 3:27 p.m.
 
In Response To: IGO Vals (Andrew Obluski)
 
Andrew
First I garbled my message above. 582 lost 4 not 3 and total losses were 9. I accounted for the total but missed the detail. Can't even follow my own notes!
Shipping losses and my own conjecture regarding same:
582 -- claimed one cruiser sunk instantly. APD (destroyer transport) Ward with 3 LCTs approaching Tulagi saw D/Bs pass overhead but a formation of "horizontal bombers" dropped a stick of bombs of which 6 missed astern. DD Farenholt was waiting for Kanawha to leave Tulagi but after Kanawha was disabled Farenholt proceeded eastward to cover other transports. Six aircraft bombed "apparently from horizontal flight." Three were near misses. Farenholt suffered superficial fragment damage and one man wounded. Ward reported three shot down and Farenholt one. This suggests a glide bombing attack. This seems inconsistent with an experienced unit like 582 but either ship (APD or DD) might be confused for a cruiser. This accounts for 12 of 582's 18 bombs if these were 582 attacks.
Zuikaku -- claimed one each large, small and medium transport sunk and one of each type damaged. Sortied 17 D/Bs. Per US reports about 20 D/Bs attacked vessels in Tulagi harbor. Could be just Zuikaku or possibly a few from 582 as well. Large oiler Kanawha was just getting out of Tulagi harbor when attacked. It suffered two direct hits and three near misses. On fire and temporarily abandonded it was later beached and sank the next day. NZ corvette Moa was fueling and suffered two direct hits and sank immediately. It was fueling from yard oiler Erskine Phelps which was also damaged and settled to the bottom (no direct hit reported).This would account for the large, medium and small ships sunk.SC-668 was maneuvering out of the harbor when attacked by six D/Bs. Although there were some near misses there was no damage. If these were Zuikaku aircraft we account for most of their bombs. If they were from 582 we get their other 6 bombs.
Junyo -- 15 dive bombers claimed 1 medium transport, 1 small transport and 1 large destroyer sunk. DD Aaron Ward escorting LST-449 was attacked by 6 D/Bs. Suffered one direct hit and four damaging near misses. Badly damaged tried to make for Tulagi. Later sank. LST-449 received six near misses within 75 feet. Ship was badly shaken by each bomb and suffered various machinery failures and some structural damage. Port shaft and rudder were believed shaken out of alignment. Ship suffered repeated steerinf failures in subsequent weeks. Survey ship Pathfinder recieved two near misses which showered the ship with water but not bomb fragments. Also received a few 7.7mm hits. One bomber crashed near these ships. This accounts for 14 of Junyo's 15 bombs (Aaron Ward reported not all its attackers dropped bombs).
Hiyo -- 17 aircraft claimed 1 large and 3 medium transports sunk. Oiler Tappahannock received 5 near misses. These caused some material damage and blew the circuit breakers causing a lack of fuel to the engines and a loss of power. The ship slowed to a near stop. One D/B was reported to have crashed close aboard. Adhara received three near misses which put three holes below the water line and buckeled bulkheads, broke booms, put splinter holes topside, caused casualties, and caused a fuel leak among other damage. Her pumps kept her afloat until she reached Espiritu. Libra, William Williams, and Dona Nota each reported two near misses but suffered no material damage. This accounts for 14 of Hiyo's 17 bombs.
Likely some bombers were shot down before dropping their bombs while other bombs were simply not observed by Allied forces.
Andrew, I'm not sure if this is what you were looking for. Are you interested in the New Guinea phase of I-Go as well?
Rick
 
Re: Shipping attack results
 
Posted By: DON WALDO <mailto:dwaldo@travelers.com?subject=Re: Shipping attack results>
Date: Monday, 10 June 2002, at 5:46 a.m.
 
In Response To: Shipping attack results (richard dunn)
 
RICK
Thanks for the great info.Swett was awarded the medal fo honor for his feat.Don
 
Bomber statistics (accurate?)
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=Bomber statistics (accurate?)>
Date: Monday, 10 June 2002, at 7:22 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Shipping attack results (Andrew Obluski)
 
Andrew
If you come across accurate info on this subject, let me know.
Here's what I have. First set of figures is as reported in JMS No. 122. Then some comments.
7 Apr 43 (X raid) total 9 lost [details given above]
11 Apr 43 (Y-2) Zuikaku 13 T.99 carrier bomber (3 lost); Hiyo 8 T.99 (1 lost); Junyo 8 T.99 (no losses); total 4
12 Apr (Y) 751 Ku 17 G4M1 (6 lost); 705 26 G4M1 (none); total 6
14 Apr 43 (Y-1) 751 Ku 17 G4M1 (none); 705 Ku 27 G4M1 (3 lost); total 3
14 Apr 43 (Y-2) Junyo 11 T.99 carrier bombers (2 lost); Hiyo 12 carrier bombers(1 lost); total 3
Now the confusion sets in! It looks like the G4M1 figures for losses may be reversed according to one source.
One Japanese source says losses on the 12th were only 3. These included one lost outright and one force landed at Lae badly damaged (751) and also one other force landed at Lae badly damaged (705). Total 3. For the 14th 3 of 751 were lost to operational causes en route and three (705) were shot down in combat. Plus two more force landed at Surumi. Total 6 [or 8]. (However see info from official communique below).
More confusion!! Detailed above are 16 carrier bombers lost and 9 land attack bombers lost plus 4 others force landed. But in summarizing the attacks Mono. 122 gives losses as 17 carrier bombers lost and 8 land attack bombers lost and 5 force landed.
Summarized fighter losses are 17 plus 2 force landed.
Total losses are 42 (the figure given in some publications) and 49 lost plus force landed away from base (the figure given by Martin Caiden in "Samurai" and Okumiya in "Zero" and many other publications). This compares with only 39 losses detailed in Mono. (However this equates to 42 when you add three fighter losses on Apr 7th [Mono. says 9 instead of actual 12]).
How does one reconcile the differences (absent somebody on this board coming up with detailed unit records!)? My guess is the additional 7 losses returned to Rabaul but were "badly damaged" (i.e. damaged beyond repair). But that's just a guess. I think the unit records would clarify this because it looks like the authors of the Monograph were working with higher level (Air Flotilla?) war diaries rather than unit records.
Losses on Apr 11th (4 DB, 2 fighters) verified by 8th Area Army Intel report and Japanese communique. On the 12th intel report and communique admit 5 land attack bombers lost. On 14th communique admits 5 unspecified losses. Hata/Izawa (Japanese Naval Fighter Aces, App. D) gives figures which add up to 42 including 6 land attack losses on the 12th and 3 on the 14th. Looks like the 6 G4M losses were on the 12th (Moresby) not the 14th.
Whew. This is hard work. Sorry, I don't have a "clean" answer for you. Also hope I haven't garbled some of this info. I'll quit for now. Can anyone else help?
Rick
 
I-Go effectiveness
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=I-Go effectiveness>
Date: Tuesday, 11 June 2002, at 10:11 a.m.
 
In Response To: Bomber statistics - accurate, I hope (Andrew Obluski)
 
Andrew
I don't take such a critical view of I-Go's effectiveness. The real problem was all the attacks should have been repeated a few times.
The X-raid on Guadalcanal-Tulagi had these effects:
1. Bombers were pulled back from Guadalcanal to rear bases. Allied offensive sorties over the Solomons were fewer in April than they had been in March
2. A cruiser bombardment of Kolombangara scheduled for that night was cancelled.
3. Reinforcement runs to the Russels were cancelled for several days (however, Cleanslate was almost completed anyway)
4. In addition to 6 F4Fs and one P-39 shot down, 9 other F4Fs were damaged. This included a couple "badly shot up", a crash landing and an emergency landing away from base, one with 60 bullet holes, and four others with unspecified damage.
You probably know this raid was witnessed by Lt (j.g.) John F. Kennedy who arrived for duty at Tulagi that day (this just trivia not related to effectiveness).
As to the New Guinea raids, effective compared to what? The JAAF 6th Air Division was basically doing nothing about the Allied build up on New Guinea's north coast and it certainly was not attacking airfields at Port Moresby during April.
I-go was in my judgment moderately effective but too little (and I'd like to say too late but trained forces were just not available prior to April) and lacking in essential follow-up attacks. I realize the whole idea of using carrier based aircraft in a land based role is controversial but if it was going to be done in this instance there should have been rather more of it.
Having said the above, I will admit that I-go did not delay the Allied offensive one wit and since that was its purpose, it was strategically ineffective.
[one other matter, Caidin in "Samurai" did cite the figure 49 but in a completely misleading manner. He made it appear that these were losses of 251/Tainan Ku which did not even reach the theater until a month later]
While I-go may not have had great effect, it certainly outshown Ro-go by a mile. My opinion anyway.
Rick
 
Re: I-Go effectiveness
 
Posted By: Andrew Obluski <mailto:aoba41@yahoo.com?subject=Re: I-Go effectiveness>
Date: Wednesday, 12 June 2002, at 7:53 a.m.
 
In Response To: I-Go effectiveness (richard dunn)
 
Surely Rick you are right. Maybe tactically the Japanese stopped the Allied advance for some time. But one have to remember that they deployed their First Team - carrier crews plus elite Rikko units. If they didn't make the major damage to Allies - no other Japanese forces could [especially JAAF].
Carrier crews were too precious to be used in long campaigns of land-based air groups. Therefore Japanese counted on achieving success in a few strikes and then withdrew best aircrews. The IJN was still preparing for another Tsushima and needed them badly for the decisive battle. Further deployments of carrier crews to Rabaul [ROGO plus CarDiv 2 planes twice] reduced the skilled personnel and were one of the factors that led them to the Mariana Turkey Shoot. Remember that IJN carriers did not fought naval air battle between Santa Cruz and the Philippine Sea - but crews were constantly lost and replaced by less skilled aviators.
To end this, Adm Yamamoto decided to boost morale of his men because IGO was not as effective as planned [even without downsizing and correcting Japanese claims]. This ended in disaster.
Take care
Andrew
 
Army help.
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=Army help.>
Date: Wednesday, 12 June 2002, at 12:41 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: I-Go effectiveness (Don Waldo)
 
Don
When the Allied offensive began on June 30th 1943 most of the JAAF 6th Air Division was at Wewak but 14th Hiko Sentai was still based at Rabaul. Also there was part of the type 1 model 1 fighters of the 12th Hiko Dan and a few type 3 fighters. On July 2d and 4th these units mounted bombing attacks on Rendova. The July 2d attack was probably one of the most effective attacks of the Solomons campaign. The attack on the 4th was somewhat less effective and resulted in heavy losses to the 14th Hiko Sentai and some fighter losses. This was the end of Japanese Army Air involvement in the Solomons.
Earlier (late Jan-early Feb 43) part of the 45th Hiko Sentai and 12th Hiko Dan had participated in Ke-go (Guadalcanal evacuation).
Rick
 
B5Ns, yes but...
 
Posted By: richard dunn <mailto:rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu?subject=B5Ns, yes but...>
Date: Monday, 10 June 2002, at 12:19 p.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Bomber statistics (accurate?) (DON WALDO)
 
Don, Andrew
Here are the I-Go deployment plan:
3d Fleet HQ 8 men
Zuikaku 170 men, 27 VF, 18 VB, 18 VA
Zuiho 60 men, 18 VF
Junyo 170 men 27 VF, 18 VB
Hiyo 170 men 26 VF, 18 VB, 9 VA
B5Ns did deploy from Truk to Kavieng. They were part of the I-Go deployment but did not participate in any attacks. Probably did search and anti-sub work.
Rick
 
IGO OOB
 
Posted By: Andrew Obluski <mailto:aoba41@yahoo.com?subject=IGO OOB>
Date: Tuesday, 11 June 2002, at 5:55 a.m.
 
In Response To: B5Ns, yes but... (richard dunn)
 
Thanks Rick
I didn't know about B5N's deployment to Kavieng.
Let me add some human dimension to your statistical data -Eta Jima Naval Academy Classes in parentesses.
Third Fleet
ZUIKAKU
CO Capt Tameki NOMOTO [44]
VB Lt Sadamu TAKAHASHI [61]
VF Lt Kenjiro NOTOMI [62]
ZUIHO [D3A2 not allocated to this carrier]
CO Capt Bunjiro YAMAGUCHI [45]
VF Lt Masao SATO [63]
JUNYO
CO Capt Mitsuru NAGAI [45]
VB Lt Toshio TSUDA [63]
VF Lt Yasuhiro SHIGEMATSU [66]
HIYO
CO Capt Michio SUMIKAWA [45]
VB Lt Toshizo IKEUCHI [65]
VF Lt Kiyokuma OKAJIMA [63]
Land-based Units
21 Air Flotilla
CO Rear Adm Rinosuke ICHIMARU [41]
751 Kokutai
CO Capt Naohiro SATA
Hikocho Lt Cdr Masaichi SUZUKI
Hikotaicho Lt Cdr Kazuo NISHIOKA [58]
26 Air Flotilla
CO Rear Adm Kanae KOSAKA [43]
705 Kokutai
CO Capt Yasuo KONISHI [46]
Hikocho Lt Cdr Shichizo MIYAUCHI [56]
Hikotaicho Lt Cdr Tomoo NAKAMURA [59]
Best regards
Andrew
PS. Don't have data on 582 Ku
 
Re: IGO OOB
 
Posted By: UCHIDA, Katsuhiro <mailto:2000GT-B@mui.biglobe.ne.jp?subject=Re: IGO OOB>
Date: Tuesday, 11 June 2002, at 7:07 a.m.
 
In Response To: IGO OOB (Andrew Obluski)
 
582 Ku
CO Capt Sakae YAMAMOTO
VB Lt Tamotsu EMA
VF Lt Cdr Saburo SHINDO
Hope this helps!
Katsuhiro
 
Correction! (That was Takahata, NOT Ema!) *PIC*
 
Posted By: UCHIDA, Katsuhiro <mailto:2000GT-B@mui.biglobe.ne.jp?subject=Correction! (That was Takahata, NOT Ema!) *PIC*>
Date: Wednesday, 10 July 2002, at 6:02 a.m.
 
In Response To: Thanks a lot *No Text* (Andrew Obluski)
 
I must correct my previous posting!
Ema was assigned to 582 Ku in early May of 1943.
Lt. Tatsuo TAKAHATA (NA 64) led the carrier bomber squadron of 582 Ku during Operation I-go.
Takahata was MIA on Apr. 7, 1943 on the way to Guadalcanal during the "X raid". He ditched because of malfunction and was finally declaired KIA with his observer CPO Kazuma KOMAZAWA.
After Takahata's death, there was no Kanbaku Hiko-taicho in 582 Ku until Ema was assigned as new Hiko-taicho in May 1943.
HTH,
Katsuhiro
 
B5N2 and IGO
 
Posted By: Andrew Obluski <mailto:aoba41@yahoo.com?subject=B5N2 and IGO>
Date: Monday, 10 June 2002, at 7:54 a.m.
 
In Response To: Re: Bomber statistics (accurate?) (DON WALDO)
 
Don
B5N2s did not take part in IGO. Only A6M, D3A and G4M. Not counting recco planes. But Kates were not flown from carriers to land bases in Apr 1943
Andrew
Factory Color Schemes: The Aichi D3A1 Val *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Factory Color Schemes: The Aichi D3A1 Val *PIC*>
Date: Wednesday, 20 March 2002, at 6:57 a.m.
 
Preliminary Report: The Factory Application of Paint Schemes for the Aichi (D3A1) Type 99 Carrier Bomber, 1939-1942
Introduction
The Aichi Type 99 carrier bomber (D3A1 model 11 "Val") entered service with the Imperial Japanese Naval Air Force in an overall finish of natural metal or painted aluminum. Photographs of prototypes and early production aircraft permit the conclusion that these aircraft were so finished on leaving the factory production line.
However, documented relics from several Aichi D3A1 Val carrier bombers in private and public collections, as well as in the U.S. National Archives, also permitted a more thorough forensic study of a subsequent color scheme as applied to these aircraft at the factory.
I. The Relic Examples
The following Val relics were examined and their surface paint colors analyzed:
1) D3A1 model 11, s/n3114, [Q-219], constructed 5 December 1940; recovered 3 September 1942, Deba, Papua N.G./ Data plates and skin samples, NARA, "Japanese -Plates and Markings," Nos.245~255.
2) D3A1 model 11, s/n3170, [AI-225]?, recovered December 1941, Pearl Harbor, USS CURTISS (AV-4)/ Metal skin sample, private collection via Mike MOSHER.
See more details at: (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/ph-curt.htm)
3) D3A1 model 11, s/n3150 or 3180 (?), [AII-2xx], recovered December 1941, Pearl Harbor Middle Loch near Pearl City/ Dive-brake assembly, The DANN Family Collection.
See photo at: (http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/d3a1_dannval_a.jpg)
4) D3A1 model 11, s/n unknown, recovered December 1941, Pearl Harbor, Aiea area, Oahu, T.H./Data plates and metal fragments, John EGGER Collection.
5) D3A1 model 11, s/n3193, constructed 2 May 1941; recovered December 1941, Oahu, T.H./Data plate and metal fragments, Warner Robins (GA) AFB, Museum of Aviation, "Tora! Tora! Tora!" Collection.
See photo at: (http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/d3a1_3193_ph_robinsafb.jpg)
6) D3A1 model 11, s/n unknown, recovered December 1941, OAHU, T.H./ Horizontal stabilizer tip, U.S. Army Museum Collection at Fort de Russy, Honolulu, Hawaii.
See photo at: (http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/d3a1_fortderussy.jpg) or click on the link below
7) D3A1 model 11, s/n 3392, recovered 1972, New Ireland, Papua N.G./Charles DARBY and LANSDALE Collections
II. The Color Analysis
Forensic inspection and/or color analysis was conducted on the different relics listed above by James F. LANSDALE, James I. LONG, Robert C. MIKESH, Todd A. PEDERSON, and William C. WOLF. LANSDALE collated and tabulated the results and conclusions. All colors were compared to the Federal Standard Colors 595B color fan, the Munsell Color Standards Key, and colors found on a sample of the "Official Japanese Aircraft Color Standards of 5 February 1945" in the Donald W. THORPE Collection.
All the aircraft artifacts examined from the Aichi D3A1 model 11 Vals bore a outer surface color which was either identical to, or a close match to the hue of FS-x0277 or FS-16160 (Munsell 2.5 Y 5/2 to 2.5 Y 5/3).
Please note in the photograph below the color of a relic stated to be from a Val, s/n 3170, which crashed on the USS CURTISS, AV-4. The paint appears oxidized or scorched which has produced a non-gloss finish most like FS-30277. The relic, as pictured here, is positioned above an actual color sample from the Japanese Aircraft Color Standards of 5 February 1945 (color 3-3) known in the IJN as "I 3." In another report, this color has also been called "ameiro."
The condition of Relic No.2 was in marked contrast to the, "almost new," appearance of the paint on the DANN Family dive-brake assembly (Relic No.3) and the Fort de Russy Val tail sample (Relic No.6). In these two artifacts, the paint color was a closer match to FS-16160 (Munsell 2.5Y 5/3 or Munsell 2.5 Y 4/3).
On all the painted relics examined, the reverse side of the painted skin was coated in a bright, translucent, aodake/aotake "lime green" or "deep "blue-green" protective color.
In no example studied of identified D3A1 model 11 Val relics was there any evidence of a primer coat having been applied prior to the application of the final finish on the exterior surfaces.
III: Conclusion/s
The evidence of these relics strongly supports the contention that the Aichi D3A1, model 11 "Val," Type 99 Carrier Bombers produced from late 1940 until early or mid 1942, left the factory in an overall finish of IJN "I 3" color; the so-called "ameiro" or "grey poupon." Many of these Vals may also have had a dark-green upper-surface camouflage applied later in the field.
James F. Lansdale,
© 2002 LRA
Acknowledgements
This report would not have been possible without the analysis, information provided, and contributions of relics for analysis by the following individuals/organizations:
The Dann Family, Dr. Charles Darby, Darwin Edwards (Curator of the Museum of Flying, Warner-Robins AFB), John Egger, The Fort de Russy Army Museum Staff, Martin Grant, James I. Long, Robert C. Mikesh, Bob and Mike Mosher, Todd A. Pederson, Phyllis Quirk (Museum of Flying Staff), Dr. William C. Wolf
 
Val Tail At Fort deRussy Army Museum
 
Re: Val Color Schemes: Interior Aotake/aodake *PIC*
 
Posted By: James F. Lansdale <mailto:LRAJIM@aol.com?subject=Re: Val Color Schemes: Interior Aotake/aodake *PIC*>
Date: Thursday, 21 March 2002, at 7:29 a.m.
 
In Response To: Factory Color Schemes: The Aichi D3A1 Val *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
 
Early in February, Rich LANE posted an excellent article (reposted here) regarding the preservative/protective coating of aotake/aodake factory-applied to the interior surfaces of the Aichi Type 99 Carrier Bomber (D3A1 model 11 "Val") . Please note in the photo (below Rich's article) two samples of variations in this transluscent color from two separate Vals (s/n3392, on the right, and s/n3453, on the left).
The Val relic samples were contributed by Dr. Charles DARBY.
"I was looking though some TAIC manuals and came across this report that has a section on Val paint and colors.
Technical Air Intelligence Center (TAIC) Report #15 (October 1944)
'Examination of Japanese Airframes from Jill 11, Zeke 11, Val 11, Dinah 2 and Lily 2.'
The section on the Val read:
'Paint and Coatings:
The paint and coating on Val were of two different types [on three Vals].
The coating on Val BMI 482, CEE 4185-6, consisted of a dark green transparent coating over a thin, transparent, copper-colored primer. The vehicle was a modified phenolic varnish similar to the vehicle found on previous Japanese parts. However, the coating was very brittle, with poor adherence, in contrast to the usual excellent flexibility and adhesion. The coating contained a slight amount of iron oxide with an organic dye for color.
The [exterior?] coating of Val BMI 484, CEE 2185-2, was of a heavy green type with the usual modified phenolic-resin varnish finish. The film was semi-opaque with an iron oxide base and organic dye. No evidence of a primer coat was found. Adherence was good.
The coating on Val BMI 477, CEE 2185-3, had a modified phenolic-resin varnish vehicle with a gray zinc oxide pigment of poor adherence on one side [exterior?] and a transparent green coating on the other side [interior?]. The zinc oxide concentration was high which was probably the cause of poor adherence. The green coat showed traces of blue color which appeared the same as the Japanese prussian blue type coat. The blue type of coat will turn green on heating; possibly this part has been subjected to heat.'"
Posted By: Rich Lane
Date: Sunday, 3 February 2002
Than you Rich LANE!
Jim Lansdale
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