-
IJA Units & Markings Part 2
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- Topics:
- 64 Hiko-Sentai article
-
Posted By:
Jim Broshot <jbroshot@fidnet.com>
Date:
Thursday, 31 October 2002, at 6:18 p.m.
Just
arrived, AIR ENTHUSIAST No. 102 (Nov/Dec 2002) with
"Forgotten
Enemy Japan's 64th Sentai At War 1941 - 45" by Mark Huggins (with 5 side
views of Ki-43s by Pete West), 10 pages.
Looks good,
however on the first read through I am a bit troubled by a some typos
[In Dec
1941]"as part of the 7th DAITAI [Battalion], the 64th was responsible for
organizing fighter escort for fighter escort for its three allocated bomber
units...."
In this
context I think that 7th Air Brigade or "Hiko-dan" is meant.
"Considerable
B-24 Liberators"? Consolidated B-24 Liberators.
How
about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connection *PIC*
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Friday, 1 November 2002, at 1:53 p.m.
In Response
To: 64 Hiko-Sentai article (Jim Broshot)
I just got
my copy. It seems 64th Sentai used Ki44s after all!
Editors
note: Picture at http://www.airconnection.on.ca/images/kml09.jpg
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca>
Date:
Saturday, 2 November 2002, at 5:56 p.m.
In Response
To: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connection *PIC* (Deniz Karacay)
I picked up
my copy today at Aviation World in Toronto (link below). Fantastic! The
complete text is bi-lingual (English and Polish).
To add icing
to the cake, it comes with a set of photo-etch and instrument panel film in
both 1/72 and 1/48 scale.
64 vs
AVG
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 3:03 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Grant Goodale)
The biggest
surprise for me was the final score between AVG and 64th. AVG lost 5 Tomahawks
and one Kittyhawk in the air and on the ground while destroying 11 Ki43s in the
air and three on the ground with the lose of 9 pilots. I was expecting dozens
from both sides actually. It kinda shows overclaiming on both sides.
Re:
64 vs AVG
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 4:03 a.m.
In Response
To: 64 vs AVG (Deniz Karacay)
And one of
the 64th aircraft claimed on the ground at Chieng Mai in Thailand was a Hawker
Hurricane IIB.
Re:
64 vs AVG
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Monday, 4 November 2002, at 6:31 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: 64 vs AVG (Nick Millman)
Also
Hurricanes did quite well against Ki43, especially after they got the idea of
Ki43's maneuverability
Captured
Hurricane
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Monday, 4 November 2002, at 12:50 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: 64 vs AVG (Deniz Karacay)
this
particular Hurricane was in 64th Sentai markings and had been brought up from
Palembang on 20th March 1942 with a heavy Ki-43 escort. It was destroyed on the
ground at Chieng Mai during the AVG raid on 24 March 1942.
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 2:59 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Grant Goodale)
I am halfway
through. It is well researched with claims from both sides and actual losses of
both sides is well documented for almost every encounter of 64th Sentai. There
are some fancy spelling errors like ".... Flying Togers" "...
shit down the a/c". They should have been a little more careful. Overall
it is a nice book but I wish they give up this bilingual stuff. it is waste of
paper and money, it shouldn't be too hard to press to books in two languages.
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date: Saturday,
2 November 2002, at 5:40 a.m.
In Response
To: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connection *PIC* (Deniz Karacay)
When the
64th returned to Rangoon in strength after the rainy season (during which they
trained, received new pilots and a/c) in October 1943 they had 4 Ki 44s in
addition to their Ki 43-IIs.
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Jim Broshot <jbroshot@fidnet.com>
Date:
Friday, 1 November 2002, at 6:42 p.m.
In Response
To: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connection *PIC* (Deniz Karacay)
In very
small numbers and briefly in 1943. Both Aircraft in Profile No. 255 and the
newly released JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces say the same thing.
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Friday, 1 November 2002, at 7:39 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Jim Broshot)
Yes, to get
taste of a fast fighter I guess. It says 64th Sentai never destined to get
Ki44s
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Saturday, 2 November 2002, at 3:15 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Deniz Karacay)
No, they
were used for what they were designed for - as fast climbing, heavily armed
interceptors for the air defence of Rangoon.
The idea
that these were "transitional" fighters is a myth.
It was
planned to re-equip the 64th with the Ki-61 - but it never happened.
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Deniz Karacay <denizkaracay@yahoo.com>
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 2:59 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Nick Millman)
Ki61 or
Ki84? It say Ki84 here?
Re:
How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 4:01 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Deniz Karacay)
Ki-84 was
for the 50th.
The 64th was
due to get Ki-61.
64th
Sentai and the Ki-84
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 3 November 2002, at 4:54 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: How about 64 Hiko-Sentai Book? and Ki44 connec (Nick Millman)
in
retrospect that was a little blunt and I should have qualified it. I have not
seen the Kogero book yet but I was not impressed with the AE article.
The proposed
re-equipment is mentioned in Monograph 64, "Burma Air Operations
Record". It came about during a review of operations in the 1944 rainy
season. 204th was also supposed to be re-equipped. The meaning is not entirely
clear because it states "from Model (Type) 1 fighter type (model) 2 to
type (model) 3." Therefore it probably only means an upgrade to the Ki-43
III. 64th were certainly flying the Ki-43 III at war's end and some of these
ended up being used briefly by the French.
The
Monograph states "Each regiment planning to re-organise as mentioned
during the rainy season, could not progress as expected. As for the 50th Ai Regt.,
its reorganisation could hardly be achieved after 1945, due to frequent
operational defects of the Type 4 fighters".
However, a
SEAC Intelligence Report No.83 of 09 Oct 44 does refer to the expected
introduction of Tony to the Burma theatre. This could also be a mis-translation
but in the fall of 1944 some Japanese army units in Burma were issued with
identification materials to help them differentiate Tony from the P-51 Mustang.
My
understanding from JAAF veterans is that the 64th operated the Ki-43 as
principal equipment throughout the war (and did so proudly).
The
"myth" of the Ki-84 originates in the old Aircam 29 of 1971. In that
book it mentions the Hayate being issued to the 64th in Thailand in 1945 and
refers to Warrant Officer Yoshihito (sic) Yasuda having a score of over 30,
implying he flew this type with the 64th. In fact Yasuda San left Burma in 1943
as a result of injuries and after recovery served at Kumogaya and in the 246th
Sentai. Colour profiles showing the Ki-84 in 64th markings were included in the
Aircam book. This assertion of 64th Sentai use was perpetuated in the 1997
Schiffer re-print.
There is a
photograph in "Japanese Fighters", page 129, purporting to show
pre-production Ki-84 aircraft of the 64th Sentai in shelters in Burma (?).
Unfortunately no markings can be seen and the source of the photograph is
unknown.
"JAAF
Fighter Units and Aces" does not mention operation of the Ki-84 by the
64th Sentai.
Further
evidence, either way and from any quarter, would be most welcome.
Re:
64th Sentai and the Ki-84
Posted By:
Ryan Boerema <ryann1k2j@aol.com>
Date:
Monday, 4 November 2002, at 10:17 a.m.
In Response
To: 64th Sentai and the Ki-84 (Nick Millman)
Whence then
the tale, found at this site a while back, that the 64th was offered the Ki-84
prior to Imphal/Kohima, but rejected it due to Ki-43s greater
reliability/availability for the upcoming conflict?
Also, Yasuho
Izawa in his article in Aero Album 20, way back in 1972, said, "The
Ki-43-IIs were replaced by Ki-43-IIIs, with a maximum speed of 550 kmh, in
September. This model was selected as a result of its higher service