-
IJA Units & Markings
-
- Topics:
- JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya
(New)
- intercepts over the Hump
(New)
- Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250
(New)
- INFORMATION NEEDED!!!!!
(New)
- Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15
(New)
-
-
- Posted By:
James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date:
Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 1:30 p.m.
-
- I recently
acquired a set of aircraft fragments from a Japanese aircraft collected in
China in 1945. Two are from the hinomaru and only offer the standard
"red" documented for this marking.
-
- However, one
fragment (see below) has the remnants of a warning message, probably,
"SAWARUNA." I believe this fragment to have been taken from a IJAAF
aircraft. There is no primer coat and no aotake/aodake applied to the reverse
side. The green camouflage is a close match to FS-34094.
-
- I believe
this is a fragment from a late-war Nakajima Ki-84 Frank or a Tachikawa
constructed Ki-43 Oscar.
-
- My question
is, was the warning "SAWARUNA" ever applied to any part/place on a
IJAAF fighter other than the trim tabs?
-
- Perhaps the
warning on the fragment below is something other than "SAWARUNA"?
-
- Thank you
for any and all help!
-
- Editors
note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/sawaruna.jpg
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-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage Color Approximations
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 2:14 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
-
- I went
through my FS color references and my paint collection to find something close
to your artifact out of the bottle.
-
- Eyeballing
it, two Testors Model Master II colors that look close are:
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- 2106 French
Khaki
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- 2129 Russian
Armor Green
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- There is no
FS 34094 in the Testors line. Comparing Munsell values for FS34094 yields a
similar shade in FS34097 (a little lighter) which is available in the original
Model Master series as:
-
- 1712 Field
Green FS34097
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- To me, the
first two colors (2106 and 2129) come closer to your artifact photo as viewed
on my computer.
-
- Just in case
anyone's interested.
-
- Does anyone
have any other matches/similarities?
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-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
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- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date: Saturday,
13 April 2002, at 2:46 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Nice colour
sample! Thanks for sharing it with us.
-
- Some
locations I know of - subject to the size of your sample - on the Hayate wing
upper surface the leading edge fuel tank - on the Hayabusa the elevator trim
tabs and the wing upper surfaces above the "butterfly" flaps.
-
- My guess
from the colours, but again subject to size, would be the Hayate leading edge
markings. That's a green colour I associate with Hayate.
-
-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 8:24 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (Nick Millman)
-
- According to
FAOW #19, the Hayate wing leading edge fuel tank upper surface stencil should
read "no ru na", vice "sa wa ru na". The only "sa wa
ru na" stencil I can find on the Hayate is the rudder trim tab. No
stencils are called out for the Hayate's aileron tabs in any of my references.
-
- A quick
check through Model Art 329 shows the "sa wa ru na" katakana
characters are also used on Ki-61 rudder and aileron trim tabs.
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-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 12:56 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (Bill Leyh)
-
- yes, I
missed the significance of the left hand character but as it is incomplete
anyway caution is warranted!
-
- My gut feeling
is still Hayate. I'd expect to see Hayabusa and Shoki in non-factory schemes
over natural metal or primed natural metal. Hayate had a factory paint job with
stencils commonly in red and the variagation is typical.
-
- However -
take a look at page 212 of Pacific War Eagles. A Hayabusa II Kai at Kimpo in an
overall green scheme missing a few bits of skin! A Hayate sits behind it. This
discussion is moving us towards late war "browns" and I'm not even
going to go there! I promise to be good!
-
- Another Nick
waiting to be shot down!!!
-
-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
-
- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 2:02 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (Nick Millman)
-
- I agree it's
most likely a Hayate - based on what I saw in the books plus the factory paint
scheme. It doesn't look as though the Hayabusa had any such stencils on any of
it's variants. It's possible it could be a late production Ki-44 in factory
paint.
-
- I listed all
the occurrances I could find in my library so Jim might get a better idea of
the possibilitites.
-
- I know the
War Eagles photo you mentioned. There certainly seems to be no shortage of
paint schemes, eh?
-
-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
-
- Posted By:
James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date:
Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 8:15 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (Nick Millman)
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- I think the
l/e fuel tanks on the Frank had markings which read "NORUNA".
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-
Re:
IJAAF Markings - Addendum
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 8:40 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (James F. Lansdale)
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- FAOW #16
(Ki-44) has callouts for "sa wa run na" stencils in the following
locations:
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- Rudder trim
tab
-
- Left and
right aileron trim tabs
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- Left and
right elevator trim tabs
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- Note that
this is for an UNPAINTED Ki-44. There are no such drawings or photographs for
the factory painted models. I would assume (but you know what that means) that
the same stencils were applied to the factory painted planes.
-
- Hope this
helps. And thank you VERY much for the excellent color reference!
-
-
Re:
IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed!
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 8:28 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (James F. Lansdale)
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- Read my
response to Nick. Also, can you scan a ruler along with the artifact and post
that? Without a scale reference, it appears to be too large to be a piece of a
trim tab.
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-
Re:
"SAWARUNA?" Marking To Scale *PIC*
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- Posted By:
James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 7:51 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: IJAAF Camouflage: Markings I.D. Help Needed! (Bill Leyh)
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- Here ya go
Bill!
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- Thank you
for your help. I appreciate it very much!
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- Editors
note: Picture at http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/sawaruna_scale.jpg
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-
Re:
"SAWARUNA?" Need one more scan...
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 8:37 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: "SAWARUNA?" Marking To Scale *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
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- Not a
problem!
-
- Will the
entire piece, including all the edges, fit on your scanner bed so you could
post a pic of the whole thing? That way I can do some measurements.
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- With what I
see so far I can't tell if it's larger than it should be for a trim tab. It's
close.
-
-
Re:
"SAWARUNA?" Here's my guess...
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- Posted By:
Bill Leyh <hawk81@pacbell.net>
- Date:
Sunday, 14 April 2002, at 9:18 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: "SAWARUNA?" Marking To Scale *PIC* (James F. Lansdale)
-
- Ok, based on
the full artifact scan you sent here's what I think:
-
- It's a piece
of a Ki-84 Hayate elevator trim tab. The piece is too large (top to bottom) to
be any of the other trim tabs. It's the wrong set of characters to be from the
wing leading edge fuel tank (and I also suspect the characters are too small
for that). Although none of the reference drawings I have show a stencil for
the Ki-84 elevator trim tabs, if you look in FAOW #19, page 69, top photo, you
can see the "sa wa ru na" stencil on the elevator trim tab just to
the left of the pilot's right hip pocket.
-
- That's my
guess and I'm stickin' to it!
-
-
- Posted By:
Scott Spencer <sspencer302@charter.net>
- Date: Tuesday,
14 May 2002, at 10:54 a.m.
-
- Can anyone
give me the best reference, for colors and markings, for the units that were
stationed in Sumatra during the 1943 - 1945 time frame? I want to build a Ki-43
and Ki-84 from those units that faced the RN East Indies Fleet during this long
period. I'm just not sure what mark of Ki-43 and Ki-84, as well as markings,
were flown from these bases. Any suggestions are appreciated deeply!
-
-
Richard
Dunn is your man!
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:21 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Best Ref for JAAF Units in Sumatra? (Scott Spencer)
-
- I suspect
Richard Dunn is your man for this. I believe there is a Japanese monograph on
the subject but I don't have it.
-
- 87th Sentai
with Ki-44's were there - and I believe took part in opposing the RN attacks.
33rd with Ki-43 were there during the summer of 1944.
-
- In June 1943
2nd Chutai of 64th Sentai moved from Burma to Palembang for the rainy season.
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- The old
Aircam has a lovely brown Ki-84 of the 24th Independent Chutai in Sumatra,
Spring 1945 but I cannot vouch for the accuracy.
-
-
Re:
Best Ref for JAAF Units in Sumatra?
-
- Posted By:
John MacGregor <JohnMacG6@hotmail.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 3:16 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Best Ref for JAAF Units in Sumatra? (Scott Spencer)
-
- I'd think
that you can forget the Ki84 being in Sumatra. Sumatra really was the end of
the line for the JAAF by the end of the war, what air units there were in S.
had been pulled back to Singapore and Thailand.
- JAAF fighter
Sentais in Thailand (the 13th and 64th?) were supposedly just beginning to
receive Ki84s right at the war's end.
-
-
NW
Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:52 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Best Ref for JAAF Units in Sumatra? (Scott Spencer)
-
- Unfortunately
I cannot justify Nick's confidence but I do have a little info.
-
- The Japanese
Navy provided air defence for NW Sumatra from Summer 1943 to Feb 44 with its
331 kokutai equipped with Zero 21s. Various Japanese Army air units provided
air defense in the general Palembang area. Palembang was not attacked by Royal
Navy carrier aircraft until Jan 45.
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- At the time
of the carrier raids against NW Sumatra (Sabang, Kota Radja area) in April,
June and July 44 there do not seem to have been any regular JAAF fighter units
assigned permanently to that area. Detachments from the Palembang area may have
moved into the area in response to British raids.
-
- The
principal units on Sumatra were 87 FR (Ki 44) from Dec 43 to Spring 1945 and 33
FR, Palembang area, June-Oct 44 (Ki 43-II) and Sumatra-Andamans area Jan-July
45 (Ki 44). Several other units had short tours in the Palembang area.
-
- Hope this
little bit helps. Good luck.
-
-
Re:
NW Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
Scott Spencer <sspencer302@charter.net>
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 2:42 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: NW Sumatra (richard dunn)
-
- THANK YOU
very much for the information. As I posted to John MacGregor's reply below, I
was interested in the summer of '44 forays by the RN. I am also interested in
the Palembang raids when the EIF/BPF was in route to the Pacific in early 1945.
-
- Essentially,
I am desiring to model some of the units that faced the EIF/BPF during
1944/1945. I have modeled the FAA aircraft of the period and wanted to model
their nemisis.
-
- Is their a
reference (either in book or on the internet) for the particular markings and
paint schemes of the units you mentioned? Finding out what the aircraft looked
like is my first challenge and then finding 1:48 scale decals of those markings
is my second challenge.
-
- Your help is
greatly appreciated!
-
-
Re:
NW Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 3:44 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: NW Sumatra (Scott Spencer)
-
- I often
confess, "I'm not a markings guy." If I don't others will point it
out.
-
- As far as I
know 33d FR continued to use its stylized triangle mark (curved hypotenuse and
indented vertical} after leaving the SE Area and rebuilding in Sumatra on both its
type 1 and type 2 fighters. I welcome corrections.
-
- 87th FR had
a more boomerang looking marking. Whole leading edge of tail fin colored and
then curved sweep back to the rudder. I believe the same marking was used from
late 42 to 45. This is just from published sources. I have no special info.
Others can probably help out.
-
-
Re:
NW Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 8:35 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: NW Sumatra (richard dunn)
-
- Two of the
Fine Molds 1/48th scale Ki-43 Oscar kits offer decals for 33rd Sentai aircraft.
-
- Kit FB 3, a
Ki-43 III Ko, has markings for the aicraft flown by Lt Hitoshi Yamamoto, a
Bukosho winner, of the 3rd Chutai, 33rd Sentai, from "Bireum"
airfield, Sumatra in October 1944. The colour scheme is plain
"late-war" khaki-green uppersurfaces and natural metal undersurfaces.
The unit "twin-three" marking is yellow. This particular aircraft is
also illustrated in colour in Model Art 416 "Medaled Pilots of Japanese
Army Air Force in World War II" (page 6).
-
- Kit FB 4, a
late production Ki-43 II, has markings for the aicraft of the 1st Chutai
leader, Capt Kiyoshi Namai, at "Gernbang" airfield, Sumatra in the
summer of 1944. The colour scheme is dark green mottle over natural metal. The
"twin-three" marking is in white outlined red and the aircraft has a
wide white fuselage band, also outlined in red. This aircraft is illustrated in
colour in Model Art 395 "Camouflage & Markings of Type 1 Fighter
Hayabusa" (page 11) together with other 33rd Sentai examples.
-
- I can't find
those particular airfields on Geoff Thomas' excellent map of Sumatran and
Javanese airfields or anywhere on my own 1920's maps so perhaps they are also
known by other names? I believe the Fine Molds kits are still available from
Hobby Link Japan. Aeromaster also produced 3 sets of decals for the Ki-43 and
some of those may be relevant and could be used with the old Otaki or new
Hasegawa kit (if you like it!)
-
- In January,
1943 five Ki-44's had been issued to the predominantly Oscar equipped 33rd
Sentai at Wuchang, China. These aircraft were used to form a special Ki-44
Shotai under Maj Akira Watanabe, the Sentai commander. Colour schemes for the
Ki-44 in 33rd Sentai service are obscure.
-
- The Ki-44's
of the 87th Sentai appear to have been in natural metal with deep green mottles
in various styles on the upper surfaces. Some aircraft also appear to be in a
very worn deep green finish with large areas of natural metal showing. The
Sentai also used 40mm cannon armed versions of the Ki-44. Unusual fuselage
striping was applied to some aircraft, probably to denote Chutai and Hentai
leadership. The "Spirit of the Wind" tail marking, which is
relatively easy to hand paint, was blue for the 1st Chutai, red for the 2nd
Chutai and yellow for the 3rd Chutai. It was common practice in this unit for
the spinner and 40mm wing cannon fairings to be painted in the Chutai colours
too.
-
-
Re:
NW Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
Scott Spencer <sspencer302@charter.net>
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:51 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: NW Sumatra (richard dunn)
-
- I admit a
lot of ignorance about Japanese aircraft and units so can I ask a stupid
question?? What does FR stand for?
-
- Thank you
for the assistance and maybe someone will step up and offer sources or where I
can find the decals for these units.
-
-
Re:
NW Sumatra
-
- Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
- Date:
Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:09 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: NW Sumatra (Scott Spencer)
-
- I'll try not
to get too complicated. FR stands for Hiko Sentai or Flying Regiment (sort of).
FR originally stood for Hiko Rentai (a flying unit with an attached airfield
battalion) this was a real Regiment (Rentai was the ground Army term for
Regiment). During the China war there was a reorganization of JAAF units.
Airfield Battalions were generally detached from Flying Regiments and these new
smaller units (generally three flying squadrons and a small maintenance and
admin unit) were redesignated "Sentai" rather than "Rentai"
but so were some units that kept their Airfield Battalions.
-
- The official
abbreviation for Hiko Rentai had been FR. The new abbreviation for Hiko Sentai
became F. Despite this official change the abbreviation FR was VERY commonly
used during WW2 for Hiko Sentai. After WW2 the Japanese official historians
used "F" and many other hitorians have followed suit. 33d F is
technically the correct abbreviation for 33d Hiko Sentai. 33d FR is an
historically accurate abbreviation for 33d Hiko Sentai.
-
- Probably a
minor point and possibly more than you really wanted to know but since I use
both conventions from time to time I thought I'd answer this way.
-
- If I've
gotten any of the above garbled perhaps someone else can straighten this out.
-
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 1:43 a.m.
-
- Special
envoy to the US Saburo Kurusu, who was reportedly active in attempting to stop
the outbreak of war, was married to an American and had three children. One of
his sons was supposedly a pilot in the "Japanese Air Force" and
killed in the Pacific.
-
- I don't know
whether Army or Navy - or what type of aircraft. Does anyone have any further
details about his identity or fate?
-
-
Re:
Mystery Pilot Kurusu *PIC*
-
- Posted By:
Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 6:06 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Mystery Pilot Kurusu (Nick Millman)
-
- Ryo Kurusu
was the son of Saburo and Alice Kurusu and was born in January 1919. He joined
Kawanishi Aircraft in 1940 after graduating the Yokohama Industrial College but
was immediately drafted to the army as a technical officer cadet. He started
flight training in 1941 and became an aviation technical officer.
-
- He was
reportely a good pilot, and tested mainly tested fighter planes at the IJA Air
Testing Unit in Fussa (located at what is now USAF Yokota AB near Tokyo).
-
- He was
killed on February 16, 1945. Witness accounts contradict in small details, but
what happened seem to be this;
-
- Capt. Kurusu
took of in a Ki84 and landed once, reporting one kill. Then as he was walking
to his reloaded planed to take off again, Lt Ryozaburo Umekawa's Ki43 started
taxiing and hit him from behind. His head was chopped off by the by the Ki43's
propeller, killing him on the spot. Since he was considered to be "on
mission", his death was treated as KIA.
-
- All accounts
regarding Ryo Kurusu state that he was a tall and hadsome sportsman, well liked
and respected by those around him.
-
- Kurusu's
photograph is displayed in the war museum in Yasukuni Shrine today.
-
- Editors
note: Picture at http://homepage2.nifty.com/02366/kurusu.jpg
-
-
Re:
Mystery Pilot Kurusu
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 7:16 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: Mystery Pilot Kurusu *PIC* (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)
-
- That is a
most interesting account - thank you very much indeed. Do you know which unit
he was serving in at the time of his death?
-
- A bonus is
the photograph, which provides an excellent close-up of the camouflage pattern
on the Sonia!
-
-
Re:
Mystery Pilot Kurusu
-
- Posted By:
Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 3:25 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: Mystery Pilot Kurusu (Nick Millman)
-
- He was stil
with the Air Testing Unit; by 1945 they were flying interception missions as
well.
-
-
- Posted By:
emmer <emmer@xs4all.nl>
- Date:
Sunday, 30 June 2002, at 4:49 a.m.
-
- Need desperate
onfomation about the 50th and 60th Sentai and their Chutai's....I know thers a
lidl info of them on the net, but please if anyone knows some more, reply on
this topic....thx....
-
-
50th
Sentai markings
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Wednesday, 3 July 2002, at 1:44 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: INFORMATION NEEDED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (emmer)
-
- At the
beginning of the Pacific War the 50th Sentai flew the Nakajima Ki-27
"Nate", a fixed undercarriage fighter, and transitioned to the
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa "Oscar" during 1942. They also had a few
Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki "Tojo" on strength and very late in the war
began transition to the Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank".
-
- The Sentai
marking was a lightning flash running from the tail along the fuselage. The
flash was red for the 1st Chutai, orange or yellow for the 2nd Chutai and white
for the 3rd Chutai. Chutai leaders aircraft were distinguished by a coloured
fuselage band in front of, or replacing, the white so-called "combat
stripe" and often the forward edge of the cowling and spinner were painted
in the Chutai colour.
-
- The deep
orange-yellow paint used on the markings of the early Hayabusa of this Sentai
faded to a pinkish colour which has caused some confusion around Chutai
identification in the past.
-
- Individual
aircraft were "named" with Kanji characters painted in white on the
rudder. There were exceptions but generally the 1st Chutai used the name of
winds - example "Asakaze" (morning wind), the 2nd Chutai the names of
birds and the 3rd Chutai moral exhortations - example "Kou" (filial
piety or reverence).
-
- The 50th
Sentai, 3rd Chutai ace Satoru Anabuki flew one Ki-43 marked in a play on words
with the "name" "Kimikaze", after his wife Kimiko, as well
as another named "Fubuki" (snow storm). Both aircraft displayed
victory markings in the form of enemy roundels painted in white on the fin.
-
- In contrast
to the 59th and 64th Sentai, the 50th Sentai displayed plain red roundels on
the fuselage of the early Ki-43 from the outset - although these were of small,
non-standard size and position.
-
- The 50th
also demonstrated the diversity of camouflage colour schemes and styles as the
64th.
-
-
Re:
50th Sentai markings
-
- Posted By:
Nelson <Rabbo28717@aol.com>
- Date:
Wednesday, 3 July 2002, at 7:58 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: 50th Sentai markings (Nick Millman)
-
- While were
on the subject...Some sources show the undersides of 50th sentai Ki-43 II`s as
being natural metal, others show light grey ....is one or the other
correct...or were both schemes utilzed ?...
-
-
Re:
50th Sentai markings
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Thursday, 4 July 2002, at 12:17 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: 50th Sentai markings (Nelson)
-
- Most of the
II's were delivered in natural metal finish and then painted at the Field Depots
before delivery to frontline units. The most common scheme for this version was
a green mottle applied directly over the natural metal - sometimes sprayed -
sometimes applied with a "brush" - canvas strips nailed to a
broomstick! The mottles varied in style and the skill of execution - some
aircraft had large hard edged blotches creating a veined pattern like the one
common for the Ki-45.
-
- Oscars
returned to the Depots for major overhaul or repair were often extensively
re-painted - if circumstances permitted. It is easy to overlook the fact that
the whole aircraft painting process was determined by the exigencies of the
front and the supply situation - both of aircraft and paint! Maintenance
personnel would not hang about waiting to receive a shipment of
"authentic" Aeromaster Nakajima Green from Japan before re-painting
an Oscar for return to a hard-pressed frontline unit!
-
- "Hold
on Ito! You can't use that paint! It's Kawasaki olive and this is a
Hayabusa!". Hmmm.
-
- Some II's
also appeared in a two-tone green mottle - a darker over lighter green (or
grey-green) - but it is not clear if this was just an effect of the overspray.
In China there were many interesting variations.
-
- The 50th
were unusual in that many of their II's in Burma were painted in a
"kumogata" (cloud - RAF type) scheme of green and brown on the upper
surfaces but that was by no means exclusive. The paint was probably Thai in
origin and the brown had a strong reddish-orange cast. It is possible but by no
means certain that the undersurfaces were painted pale blue-grey or light (sky)
blue. Low contrast colours mean some of these schemes are very difficult to
discern from photographs - conversely patchy and stained single colours often
suggest a two-tone scheme! Photographic interpreters beware!
-
- Oscar II
"5869" of the 50th, abandoned at Akyab and examined (and sketched) by
RAF Intelligence, was reported to have a "mottled mixture of green, brown,
red and blue on the top surface". This was an aircraft of the 3rd Chutai -
the white lightning flash had a thin red outline and there two vertical white
stripes on the fuselage ahead of the flash. Frustratingly the report does not
mention the undersurfaces!
-
- It is very
difficult to be certain about undersurface colours. RAF combat reports in Burma
describe Oscars with silver, "white" "white-ish" and
"faded light blue" undersurfaces. The "white" was perhaps
severely oxidised n/m.
-
- The first
model I's used by the 50th Sentai are usually depicted and described as having
grey-green undersurfaces. However, my personal view is that they were natural
metal.
-
-
Re:
50th Sentai markings
-
- Posted By:
Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca>
- Date:
Thursday, 4 July 2002, at 6:47 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: 50th Sentai markings (Nick Millman)
-
- I found your
comment about the colours in Burma to be very intriguing. It sounds very much
like an RAF scheme. Just to engage in a flight of fantasy, do you think that it
is likely that the IJAAF captured a large stock of RAF paint and copied the
British idea? The scheme might make a lot of sense in the Burma environment.
-
-
Re:
50th Sentai markings
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Thursday, 4 July 2002, at 1:19 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: 50th Sentai markings (Grant Goodale)
-
- I think it's
very possible that these schemes were influenced by RAF camouflage but they
also show remarkable similarity to Thai schemes of the time. The browns were
quite reddish - like the earth colour in parts of Thailand, Indo-China and
South China and some quite bright greens have been recorded as well as the
expected olive shades.
-
- Whichever, I
am convinced that the variety of schemes was related to the environments in
which the aircraft operated.
-
- Certainly
the use of large stocks of captured paint in Burma is confirmed through a
number of sources, including ex-64th Sentai air and ground crew.
-
- We can take
a broader view on this and acknowledge that the photographed aircraft, the
intelligence examination and the surviving relic are all in the minority when
compared to the numbers of aircraft in use. There was more out there than we
think we know! Unwise to be too pedantic about colours
-
-
- Posted By:
Marcus <Itamaensan@gmx.de>
- Date:
Sunday, 29 September 2002, at 3:11 a.m.
-
- What type of
aircraft did Imperial Japanese Army Aircraft Carriers like Akitsu Maru or
Shinshu Maru carry?
-
- Re:
Carrier-Based IJAAF-Aircraft
-
- Posted By:
Hiroyuki Takeuchi
- Date:
Monday, 30 September 2002, at 2:52 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Carrier-Based IJAAF-Aircraft (Marcus)
-
- The Ki76
STOL planes were used, carrying anti-sub bombs.
-
-
- Posted By:
CJE <cje01@free.fr>
- Date:
Thursday, 26 September 2002, at 4:55 a.m.
-
- I was
surprised to see a Ki.44 with a British fuselage roundel in the Bunrin-Do FAW
series.
- The a/c
belonged to the Akeno fighter school.
- Has anyone
further details:
- - were there
several a/c painted in enemy colors?
- - how were
they used?
- - did they
sport British fin flashes?
-
- Re:
IJAF agressor squadron
-
- Posted By:
Hiroyuki Takeuchi
- Date:
Friday, 27 September 2002, at 2:47 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: IJAF agressor squadron (CJE)
-
- These planes
were used for a Toho produced movie "Kato Hayabusa Sento-tai" which
is a movie released in 1944 about Tateo Kato and the 64th sentai. The IJAF
fully supported this movie and the film was made with captured P-40s as well as
these Ki44s which played the role of RAF Buffalos.
-
- As for the
real agressor role, the Flight Testing Unit based at Fussa sent the ace
Yasuhiko Kuroe and the captured P-51C to home defense units around the Japanese
homelands to give pilots experience in fighting the P-51 escorts that were all
over japan by this time (1945).
-
-
- Posted By:
Jim Broshot <jbroshot@fidnet.com>
- Date:
Wednesday, 18 September 2002, at 7:48 p.m.
-
- Received my
copy of Hata/Izawa/Shores's new book today. I am not a modeller so what how do
the assembled experts rate this effort.
-
- In a first
run through I thought it was better organized than Hata/Izawa's naval fighter
units and aces book (the aces are now listed alphabetically in the biographical
section for one thing).
-
- I'm not an
aviator either, but I was wondering if the Ki-43 was coming in a little bit
high in the astern attack on the B-24 in the cover art. Both the dorsal and
tail turrets bear (although the tail turret seems to be out of commission).
-
- Re:
JAPANESE ARMY AIR FORCE FIGHTER UNITS, etc.
-
- Posted By:
Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>
- Date:
Saturday, 21 September 2002, at 10:41 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: JAPANESE ARMY AIR FORCE FIGHTER UNITS, etc. (Jim Broshot)
-
- I am no
expert but since I also own copies of these books I will venture an opinion. I
have had the Japanese language editions of the IJA and IJN books since the mid
1980s. I can't read Japanese so had to wait like everyone else for the English
translations. I have also read the English edition of the IJN book.
-
- I am at page
220 in my reading through of the IJA book. In my opinion the IJA book is an
easier read than the IJN book. This is partly due to my preference for the
writing style of Mr Shores. It is also due to my preference for IJA subjects
over IJN material. Editorial decisions concerning 'section one' and distribution
of photos in the newest book also contributed as described below. Be warned,
this IS a LONG and multiple books report.
-
- Neither book
gives the degree of highly detailed information of the units as seen in author
Yasuho Izawa's series of articles about the 64th Sentai published in Aero Album
and Air Classics magazines in the early 1970s. I doubt we will ever see this
done in English for the whole of the IJA's or IJN's flying activities.
-
- Mr. Shores
states in his intro to the English language edition of the IJA book there was
no summary in the English edition of the IJN book. Authors Hata & Izawa
added the summary material for the new English language edition of the IJA
book. It is 'section one' running through page 101.
-
- The unit
history section of the IJN book's English edition has many times more narrative
text, unit per unit, than the equivalent section in the new IJA edition.
Usually only one short paragraph of narrative is included for each unit in the
IJA book.
-
- Some of the
IJN narrative material is presented somewhat repetitively on occasion when
several individual unit histories had parallel service careers. The IJA book's
summary section concisely covers the IJA unit participants for entire campaigns
and their significant actions. This results in shortened and more 'potted'
individual unit histories. The IJA book's unit histories are dominated by the
listing of base changes and commander rotations. The IJN book gives much less
space to these listings.
-
- The decision
to include a summary section was I believe an editorial one. I suspect Mr.
Shores insisted on this approach. This rearrangement of the data may not have
been permitted by the original authors during Mr. Gorham's earlier effort on
the IJN book, which he translated into English.
-
- The Japanese
language editions are arranged similarly, with photo sections at front and end
of each volume. Then comes the individual unit histories followed by aces bios,
both sections having photos included with the text. Many illustrations (photos and
drawn) of typical unit markings are included. Tabular data finish off the text.
Few maps are given. Many photos of leading IJA/IJN aces are included in the
unit history sections. Those aces are also illustrated again using other images
in the aces' bio sections. The bios listings are not in an alphabetical order.
More often, group photos are given with the unit histories in the IJN book.
-
- No IJA ace
photos are included in the individual unit history section of the English
edition. Some are included in the IJA activity summary 'section one'. This
differing photo arrangement contributes to the differing 'look' between the IJA
and IJN English editions. The IJA book also has an excellent map section no
other book has.
-
- The grade of
coated paper used in both English language editions is about the same. That
used in both Japanese language editions is glossier than that in the English
language editions. This resulted in somewhat better photo reproduction in the
Japanese language editions, in my opinion. Most photos in the IJA books are
reproduced to the same size or occasionally slightly larger in the Japanese
language edition. Perhaps 5% of the photos are different between the the
English and Japanese language editions of the IJA book. Several nice photos of
77th Sentai Ki.10s are not in the English language edition. This variation also
occurred between the IJN editions.
-
- Both
Japanese language editions are in 5 7/8" x 8 1/8" format. The English
edition formats are 6 1/2" x 9 1/2" for the IJA and 7 1/4" x 10
1/4" for the IJN edtions. The text fields in the Japanese language
editions are 4 1/2+" wide IJA and 4 1/8" wide IJN. The English
editions text fields are 4 7/8+" IJA and 5 1/2" for the IJN. The text
font size is the same between comparible editions. The English edition of the
IJA book is 340 pages to 442 for the that of the IJN book. The Japanese
language editions of the books contain 444 pages for the IJA and 320 for the IJN.
-
- The English
edition of the IJN book likely contains more detailed info (minutia?) than the
IJA book. Due to the editing detailed above, the IJA book's format changed more
from the original than occurred with the translation of the IJN book. This
accounts for some of its shorter pagination. Mr. Shores states in his intro
that his effort is not as literal a translation as that of Mr. Gorham. I take
this to mean he may have deleted some of the lesser details present in the
original Japanese text. Using the IJN book as a guide, the IJA book, if more
literally translated, would have been 100+ pages longer. This may be a mercy or
a curse depending on your intrest level in all this.
- Posted By:
Micah Bly <yak@targetrabaul.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 3 September 2002, at 10:48 a.m.
-
- I'm looking
for some photos to back up a couple of profiles I've got for 13th Sentai and
5th Sentai Ki-45s operating out of Rabaul and New Guinea in 1943. Anybody have
anything they could share with me via email or here?
-
- Also, bonus
question: Does anyone know when the 5th Sentai went from that double-bar thing
to the open-face G-like device (or pie-chart look, if you will)?
-
- And one
more... I have one 5th sentai profile showing Spring 1944, with the pie-chart
on the tail, and a couple kanji. Any evidence they put kanji on their tails
before 1944? If so, was the kanji 'slogans' like some of the Ki-44 units had?
or names?
-
- Re:
Photos of 5th Sentai and 13th Sentai Ki-45s?
-
- Posted By:
Don Marsh <marsh44@fuse.net>
- Date:
Tuesday, 3 September 2002, at 5:48 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Photos of 5th Sentai and 13th Sentai Ki-45s? (Micah Bly)
-
- That
"open-face G-like device" is a stylized circular "5." Here
is some info regarding some of your questions...
-
- "Japanese
Army Fighter Regiments" by Robert Mikesh and Richard Bueschel:
- * 5 F was
created 31 Aug '38, Tachikawa, Tokyo.
-
- "Asahi
Journal," (v4 /#1) "Kawasaki Ki-45":
- * Original
marking - Long narrow double oblique stripes. Base at Kashiwa airfield,
northeast of Tokyo, spring of '43.
- * 2nd
marking - Modified to double bars upon being sent to the tropics to be less
conspicuous, mid '43.
- * 3rd
marking - Changed to circular "5" (like your "pie chart")
around Jan '44.
- * 4th
marking - Changed to kanji "5" character, Sept '44.
-
- According to
Ian Baker's "Nippon's Army Air Force" (which often contains erroneous
information):
- * "As
things got worse, the 5th's commander sought a morale booster and ran a
competition for a new design. The circular design selected was derived from an
Arabic 5. In order to reinforce the motto, "Our strength is that of mighty
mountains," each aircraft was named after a mountain. It's name being
shown on the rudder."
-
-
- Posted By:
Ryan Boerema <ryann1k2j@aol.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 27 August 2002, at 9:30 p.m.
-
- is
apparently in the US; I got my copy from Squadron today. Big whine on my part
is the unit histories are very spare, basically just telling one what airfields
they were located at. As I was hoping for at least a pocket history of the
individual sentais, as in the JNAF book, (my dream, perhaps unattainable, would
be day to day histories of the individual sentais. What, for instance, happened
to the 17th, 18th and 19th Ki-61 sentais in the Philippines?)but no such luck.
Perhaps this is redressed in the theatre accounts (New Guinea, China, the
Philippines, etc.) but I've yet to read those.
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces
-
- Posted By:
Larry deZeng <Hldeziv@aol.com>
- Date:
Wednesday, 28 August 2002, at 6:59 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces (Ryan Boerema)
-
- You're lucky
- Amazon/USA hasn't coughed up yet. They always seem to be a couple of months
behind everyone else on the distribution of new books, especially those from
outside the U.S.
-
- Quite a bit
of what you are looking for regarding the individual Sentai(s) can be found in
the Japanese Monographs and in the Sigint material. Other than that, it's
Japanese language material which, of course, is a non-starter for most of us.
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces
-
- Posted By:
Ryan Boerema <ryann1k2j@aol.com>
- Date:
Wednesday, 28 August 2002, at 10:11 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces (Larry deZeng)
-
- Where does
one acquire access to these monographs and sigints (Signals Intelligence)?
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces
-
- Posted By:
Larry deZeng <Hldeziv@aol.com>
- Date:
Wednesday, 28 August 2002, at 10:33 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces (Ryan Boerema)
-
- The
Monographs are described on this website somewhere - check the menu on the left
side of the home page. It's under Research or a related heading. These were all
microfilmed on 15 35 mm rolls by Scholarly Resources of Wilmington, Delaware,
and are generally available through interlibrary loan. I got mine from the U.S.
Army Military History Institute at Carlisle Barracks, PA, shelf number
D767.2J36 (8489).
-
- The Sigint
material is more difficult, I'm afraid. It's all in Record Groups 38 and 457 at
the National Archives in WashDC, and you would have to go there and do the
research yourself. There is more than 2,500 cubic feet of this material, but
fortunately it's pretty well catalogued. You would need a week or two to dig
out the details on JAAF fighter units.
-
- As you know,
the JAAF fighter units that were rushed to the Philippines 19 Oct 44 and after
got creamed but good. Many of them were decimated on the ground before they had
a chance to fly more than a few missions. The radio intercept material will
give you some info on this, but I doubt if it will provide you with a
day-by-day account for each unit and each mission. That would be too much to
hope for!
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces
-
- Posted By:
Tony Feredo <tferedo@info.com.ph>
- Date:
Thursday, 29 August 2002, at 3:45 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units and Their Aces (Larry deZeng)
-
- A lot of
IJAAF Units in the Philippine also suffered mechanical and maintenance problems
and their airfields and airstrips were being attacked constantly by that time.
Several years ago, some crates were dug up in some of the airfields and it
contained spare parts and materials for IJAAF and IJN aircraft.
-
- Posted By:
Pier Francesco Vaccari <pfvaccari@iol.it>
- Date:
Tuesday, 30 July 2002, at 3:38 a.m.
-
- In the new
book of Hata, Izawa & Shores about Imperial Army Fighter Units and Aces, in
the casualities list, is reported: 1°Lt.K.Terada, Lt.C.Uchino and
2°Lt.K.Sakata, all from 5°Sentai, were missed in action over North Australia (25-07-1944).
Someone know if they were in a combat mission or in a transfer flight? and with
what kind of aircraft? and they went down in open sea or over North Australia?
-
- 5th
Hiko Sentai 1944
-
- Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
- Date: Wednesday,
31 July 2002, at 6:16 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: 5° sentai over Australia (Pier Francesco Vaccari)
-
- I was
looking forward to someone providing answers to these losses. Since no one has
done so I'll give you what little info I have.
-
- First, don't
take "North Australia" too literally. The reference here is
undoubtedly to "North of Australia" this refers to the section of the
southern theater running roughly from eastern Java to western New Guinea which
includes the Banda Sea, Timor, Halmaheras, and the Celebes.
-
- With regard
to losses on July 25th they seem not to have been the result of air combat with
either the USAAF or RAAF. No air combat reported from either of these. The only
combat over Australia in this period was a claim for a "Dinah" by Spitfires
on July 20th. There was a Japanese attack in the SWPA on the 25th but I have no
details in hand. Possibly the losses related to this attack.
-
- With regard
to the 5th Hiko Sentai they were reported to have operated a few type 1
fighters (Ki 43) in June-July 44. On July 26th the 5th FR had ten type 2 heavy
fighters (Ki 45) operational. No type 1 fighters reported operational on that
date.
-
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Sunday, 28 July 2002, at 5:54 a.m.
-
- This
eagerly-awaited Grub Street publication (ISBN 1 902304 89 6) is smaller than
the previous JNAF book, only 340 pages, and is presented rather differently.
-
- The first
section is a potted history of the JAAF, by theatre, throughout the period
1931-1945, extending to about 100 pages and putting the unit listing in
context. There are many photographs of aircraft and personnel inserted in the
text. Although these are generally of good quality with some well-chosen and
interesting scenes not seen before, they are reproduced to a rather small size.
-
- The second
section is a list of the principal fighter units, each with a brief background,
details of the aircraft flown, with dates; a list of movements with locations
and dates (very useful); "battle honours" - summarised theatre
distinctions; and finally a list of commanders, executive officers and Chutai
leaders with the dates of their periods of office. Most units have a simple
monochrome illustration depicting a typical example of aircraft colour scheme
and unit markings, although these are by no means comprehensive and in some
cases so poorly reproduced as to be of questionable use. This section extends
to some 80 pages.
-
- Section
three contains brief biographies of the leading aces, with their photographs,
extending to 87 pages and is followed by a numerical listing of aces with 8 or
more victories. After this is a rather curious listing of the birthplaces of
aces by prefecture.
-
- Five pages
catalogue the "major air combats" of the JAAF with claims and losses,
but the format is a little confusing and the individual units are not
identified. Claims are referred to as "v" or "p".
-
- Then there
is a truly essential listing of JAAF fighter pilot casualties, by rank, name,
unit, date and location. This 30-page list offers the potential to solve a
number of mysteries and to form the basis for some very interesting statistical
analyses. Are there ommissions? I don't know - but not all POW's are recorded
as such and there is no distinction between KIA and Missing. The list does
however include accidental deaths.
-
- The finale
is a section of monochrome maps of most of the theatres involving the JAAF,
with a list of airfield names.
-
- The dramatic
cover art by Rikyu Watanabe depicts a 50th Sentai, 3rd Chutai Hayabusa,
"Imperial Wind", probably flown by Sgt Satoru Anabuki, attacking a
pair of B-24's from astern. The camouflage of the Ki-43 appears to be an olive
green mottle over a "dead grass" colour base.
-
- All in all a
well presented and most useful book, either as the basis to begin a study or to
underpin an existing collection of references. It must be considered the first
definitive English-language reference on the subject and as such is a worthy
achievement for the authors.
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor
-
- Posted By:
Russell Fahey <rfahey@socal.rr.com>
- Date:
Monday, 29 July 2002, at 2:27 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shores (Nick Millman)
-
- Where can
this book be purchased? It does not seem to be available here in the U.S. yet.
I've been waiting a while to see the English version of this excellent
reference book
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Monday, 29 July 2002, at 3:31 p.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor (Russell Fahey)
-
- I have had
my copy on order for a while through my usual source - a well-known high street
book store - the delay was in publication and not the fault of the store.
-
- The book
should be available through any main stream book store in the USA. The jacket
has a printed USD price of $54.95 and details for USA distribution as follows:
-
- Seven Hills
Book Distributors
- 1531 Tremont
Street
- Cincinnati
- Ohio 45214
-
- e-mail is
customerservice@sevenhillsbooks.com.
-
- Or
alternatively try e-mailing Grub Street direct at milhis@grubstreet.co.uk. They
are usually very nice!
-
- Distributors
are also listed for Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor
-
- Posted By:
Steve Eckardt <egoneck1@bigpond.com>
- Date:
Tuesday, 30 July 2002, at 1:10 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor (Nick Millman)
-
- who is the
Australian distributor for this book?
-
- Re:
JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor
-
- Posted By:
Nick Millman
- Date:
Tuesday, 30 July 2002, at 8:59 a.m.
-
- In Response
To: Re: JAAF Fighter Units & Aces - Hata, Izawa & Shor (Steve Eckardt)
-
- the
Australian distributor is listed as follows:
-
- Capricorn
Link
- PO Box 704
- Windsor
- NSW 2756
Posted By:
Gordon <gordonc@adf-serials.com>
Date:
Friday, 23 August 2002, at 1:28 a.m.
In
Francilion he lists the order of battle for the IJAAF on the eve(?) of the
Malayan campaign. This includes 4 Hikodan (3rd, 7th, 10th and 12th) plus 2
Dokuritsu Hikotai (15th and 83rd). This list differs from that published in
"Empire of the Sun".
Can anyone
advise which is correct (or the most uptodate)? Is there any recent research
that makes any correction to Francilion's order of battle?
"Bloody
Shambles"
Posted By:
Garth <kkoori@hotmail.com>
Date:
Saturday, 24 August 2002, at 1:00 a.m.
In Response
To: JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya (Gordon)
Have you had
the chance to check out "Bloody Shambles"? It might be able to assist
you with your search.
In case you
don't have any details on the book, this is from our book database at work
(Australian War Memorial). . .
Title:
Bloody shambles / Christopher Shores and Brian Cull with Yasuho Izawa.
Author:
Shores, Christopher F., 1937-;Cull, Brian.;Izawa, Yasuho, 1943-;
Citation:
bnb94881750
Pagination:
2 v. : ill., map, ports. ; 23 cm.
Type:
Monograph
Publisher:
London : Grub Street,
Year: 1992.
Subject:
World War, 1939-1945 - Philippines - Aerial operations.;World War, 1939-1945 -
Malaya - Aerial operations.;World War, 1939-1945 - Singapore - Aerial
operations.;World War, 1939-1945 - Burma - Aerial operations.;World War,
1939-1945 - Asia, Southeastern - Aerial operations.;
Hope that
helps, I too am very interested in the Malayan Campaign, I'll be in Butterworth
later this year with my Company for four months so I'll try and get around to
as many sites as possible :)
Re:
JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya
Posted By:
Gordon <gordonc@adf-serials.com>
Date:
Wednesday, 4 September 2002, at 10:42 p.m.
In Response
To: JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya (Gordon)
3rd Army Air
Force Division (8/12/41)
HQ at
Konpong Trach, Indo China
3rd Hikodan
27th Sentai
23 Ki-51 SONIA
59th Sentai
24 Ki-43 OSCAR
75th Sentai
25 Ki-48 LILY
90th Sentai
30 Ki-48 LILY & Ki-30 ANN
7th Hikodan
12th Sentai
21 Ki-21 SALLY
60th Sentai
39 Ki-21 SALLY
64th Sentai
35 Ki-43 OSCAR & 6 Ki-27 NATE
98th Sentai
42 Ki-21 SALLY
10th Hikodan
31st Sentai
24 Ki-30 ANN
62nd Sentai
22 Ki-21 SALLY
77th Sentai
27 Ki-27 NATE
70th Chutai
8 Ki-15 BABS
12th Hikodan
1st Sentai
42 Ki-27 NATE
11th Sentai
39 Ki-27 NATE
15th
Dokuritsu Hikotai
50th Chutai
3 Ki-15 BABS & 2 Ki-46 DINAH
51st Chutai
3 Ki-15 BABS & 3 Ki-46 DINAH
83rd
Dokuritsu Hikotai
71st Chutai
10 Ki-51 SONIA
73rd Chutai
9 Ki-51 SONIA
89th Chutai
12 Ki-36 IDA
81st Sentai
9 Ki-15 BABS & 7 Ki-46 DINAH
12th Chutai
? Ki-57 TOPSY
The above
list comes from Francillon.
Now from a
comprehensive list of the JIAAF from the web (freeport-tech.com/wwii), thanks
Allan,
differs from
the above list in the following ways.
1. it has
the 59th Sentai as having Ki-27b Nates rather than the Oscars
but the
number used is the same.
2. it
differs in the number of Nates with the 77th Sentai having 36
instead of
27.
3. it has
the 51st Chutai under the 7th Hikodan rather than the 15th DH
as above
4. it
doesn't list the 83rd DH as being in the order of battle
5. it
doesn't list the 12th Chutai as being in the order of battle
Then from
"Emblems of the Rising Sun" the OoB there differs from
Fancillon's
list in the following ways.
1. it has
the 81st Sentai under the 12th Hikodan (which of course
differs from
the web list)
2. it has
the 12th Chutai under the 83rd DH (again differing from the
web list)
Anyone able
to confirm any of the above or shed any light on this Order of Battle for the
Malayan campaign by the IJAAF.
Re: JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya
Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Thursday, 5 September 2002, at 5:54 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: JIAAF Order of Battle - malaya (Gordon)
The first
list (Francillon) is organizational identical to that given in: Southwest Area
Air Operations, Phase 1 (Nov.41-Feb. 42), Japanese Monograph No.55. Some of the
numbers of aircraft differ slightly. The 59th is crdited with 21 type 1
fighters and 3 type 97, for example. The 27th is reported as 28 and the 90th 23
aircraft (only type 99 TE light bombers mentioned in that case). And a few
others.
The
monograph is a very good secondary source written immediately after the war by
Japanese officers with access to available records. Having said that I also
have some primary source records that differ slightly. A 1 Sep 42 report on
aircraft loss experience states thew 59th started the campaign with 25 type 1
fighters. The same document also indicates that each of the Hikodan HQ had 3
a/c assigned directly, generally a fighter, a trainer and a transport plane.
One other
point the highest level headquarters (3d Air Div) was not a Division at this
point it was 3d Air Group (Shudan not Shidan). It was not promoted to a
Division until June 42.
p.s. As a
slight amendment to my article on Ki 43-I armament (posted on this site), based
on additional evidence, it now appears that the 64th operated Ki 43s armed
mainly with 2x12.7mm in the first month of the campaign and the 59th also had
some of these early production a/c. By early January the 59th had few if any
2x12.7mm a/c and was operating mostly mixed (1x12.7 and 1x7.7) a/c. By the end
of the campaign the same was true for the 64th.
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Tuesday, 6 August 2002, at 7:10 p.m.
Were the Japanese
attempting to intercept the a/c flying over the Hump in late 1943? If so, did
they achieve any successes or losses? Which units were engaged?
27
Oct 43 Example
Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Wednesday, 7 August 2002, at 6:25 a.m.
In Response
To: intercepts over the Hump (Franek Grabowski)
Here is one
example I have handy.On 27 October 43 six B-24s were engaged in resupply
missions over the hump. These aircraft were attacked north of Sumprabum on both
east and wastbound flights. On the return flight all six were damaged. On the
same day a C-46 was lost and believed shot down near Ft. Herz.
According to
1/Lt. Noriyuki Saito several Type 1 model 2 fighters of 50 FR deployed to
Loiwing. These were aircraft from Nos. 1 and 3 chutai. A formation of seven
under Capt. Hashimoto (3 plane flight) and Capt. Takemori (4 plane flight) flew
from Loiwing and about 1400 intercepted six B-24s. The two Japanese sections
became separated and attacked independently. Saito was in Hashimoto's formation
and was hit during his second pass. He crash landed and was later overwhelmed
by Burmese natives who turned him over to Allied troops after a ten day trek.
According to Saito the Hayabusas had orders to return direct to Heho after the
attack. One other 50 FR pilot was lost in this attack.
I believe
there are examples as well but since I had the details on this one I thought
I'd pass it along.
Re:
27 Oct 43 Example
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date: Thursday,
8 August 2002, at 2:38 p.m.
In Response
To: 27 Oct 43 Example (richard dunn)
I understand
that the above info comes from the interrogation report of 1/Lt. Saito. Are
there no Japanese documents of the period (not that I'd be surprised) as the ones
once supplied by you or you just don't have them at hand? Nevermind. Could I
assume the 50 Sentai was the only unit engaged in the Hump intercepts in
October 1943?
The reason
of the question is again Urbanowicz. In his memoirs he mentions significance of
Japanese threat on the supply sorties. According to him, he did one escort
sortie over the Hump flown out of Kunming. I don't have any reliable data on
the early period of his flying in China, apart of possible date of his first
sortie - 23.10.1943. AFAIK no sorties were flown by 23FG at the above date, so
I assume he might have been flying over the Hump at the time. According to U.
memories he had a squirmish with Japanese fighters which could lead to
destruction of some IJA a/c due to weather conditions.
Unfortunatelly
I was unable to find anything to put that event in a wider perspective, either
American or Japanese.
Posted By:
Bryan C <bryanac625@yahoo.com>
Date:
Saturday, 27 July 2002, at 6:10 a.m.
My it's been
quite a while since I posted. I have some questions regarding the planes that
intercepted a/c #10 (40-2250) of the Doolittle Raid. I understand this plane
was intercepted by a "twin-engined patrol plane (probably Kawasaki
Ki45-Kai) that dove to attack," and several Ki27 Nates also intercepted.
Does anyone
know what these a/c would have looked like... I mean what their markings would
have been? What would be any similarites/differences between a Ki45 of 1942 and
the 1/48 Tamiya Ki45 kit?
Re:
Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250
Posted By:
Grant Goodale <grant.goodale@sympatico.ca>
Date:
Saturday, 27 July 2002, at 7:30 a.m.
In Response
To: Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250 (Bryan C)
I could
stand to be corrected on this one but, according to Francillon, "the first
unit taking delivery of the Toryu was the 5th Sentai at Kashiwa, Chiba
Prefecture, which received it Ki-45 KAIas in August 1942." With the
Dolittle raid in April 1942, the Ki-45 could be ruled out.
Re:
Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 28 July 2002, at 12:29 a.m.
In Response
To: Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250 (Bryan C)
Don't know
about this specific B-25 (who was the pilot?) but the 5th Sentai was involved
in interceptions of Doolittle raiders with Ki-27 aircraft.
These were
overall light grey-green (hairyokushoku) with plain red hinomaru in four wing
positions. Unit marking was a pair of diagonal bands from the top rear of
rudder to the lower fuselage just forward of the tail. White with red edge for
1st Chutai, red with yellow edge for 2nd Chutai and yellow with red edge for
3rd Chutai. In addition horizontal fuselage bands were displayed in various
colour combinations. For example Lt Baba's aircraft (3rd Chutai) wore a single
white fuselage band edged in red in the same position as the so-caled
"combat stripe" (senchi hyoshiki)
Captain
Charles R Greening's B-25 was also attacked by Lt Umekawa from Mito flying a
test model of the Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien. Umekawa broke of his treetop attack
because of low fuel and problems with firing his guns. Greening identified his
attacker as a "Messerschmitt". Probable appearance of Umekawa's Hien
was overall natural metal with grey-green flying surfaces, plain red hinomaru
in six positions and a single red horizontal fuselage band. I don't know if
Mito insignia was worn on the tail but if so that was a red outline five-petalled flower with three blue "T"-shaped characters inside
arranged in a circle. I can send you a scan if you need it.
Twin-engined
aircraft an Irving?
Posted By: Nick
Millman
Date:
Sunday, 28 July 2002, at 1:16 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Interceptors of Doolittle Raider 40-2250 (Nick Millman)
The
twin-engine "patrol plane" may have been a Nakajima JiNi Irving of
the Yokosuka Kokutai flown by Chief Flight Petty Officer Satoru Ono.
On a
training flight from Kisarazu, the day before departure to join the Tainan Ku
at Rabaul for operational service testing, the Yokosuka Kokutai aircraft
stumbled into Doolittle's raid. Ono noticed anti-aircraft fire and observed an
"unfamiliar looking twin-tail, twin engined aircraft heading in their
direction".
The Yokosuka
aircraft's weapons were not loaded so Ono dived to evade the enemy aircraft.
Posted By:
emmer <emmer@xs4all.nl>
Date:
Tuesday, 2 July 2002, at 5:09 a.m.
Desperate
need information about the 64th SENTAI, and his Chutais, especially the 1st
Chutai...Information has to be on squadlogo.emblems colors etc...planes they
flew....
64th
Sentai markings
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Wednesday, 3 July 2002, at 1:13 p.m.
In Response
To: INFORMATION NEEDED!!!!! (emmer)
The tail
marking of the 64th Sentai was a stylised diagonal arrow in the chutai
(squadron) colour (see below). The arrow was positioned pointing down and
forward from the upper rear to the lower front of the fin. The top edge of the
arrow "head" conformed to the sloping edge of the fin.
Early in the
war the arrow was white with a thin red edging for the 1st Chutai, red with
thin white edging for the 2nd Chutai and yellow with thin red edging for the
3rd Chutai. The Sentai HQ flight was said to be distinguished by a white arrow
with thin blue edging. Later in the war the tail arrow of the 1st Chutai became
plain white (without edging) and the 3rd Chutai yellow with white edging.
Chutai and
hentai (flight) leaders aircraft were distinguished by a diagonal fuselage band
running from upper rear to lower front reflecting the Chutai colour order. Thus
the aircraft of the 2nd Hentai leader of the 3rd Chutai had a yellow tail arrow
but a red fuselage band. There were exceptions to this and anomalies.
The 64th
Sentai flew various models of the Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa "Oscar"
almost exclusively throughout the war, although they also had a few Nakajima
Ki-44 Shoki "Tojo" aircraft on strength. Early model Oscars carried
no fuselage roundels and plain red discs above and below the wings.
Colour
schemes deserve a book! They demonstrated incredible variety even within the
same time periods. A former 64th Sentai pilot emphasised, when pressed to
recall the colours of the early war Hayabusa, that not only did the shade of
dark green vary from aircraft to aircraft but even varied on the same aircraft
as a result of wear, fading and repairs. In Burma paint from various sources
was applied, including captured RAF and RN paint, and locally procured
commercial paint. RAF intelligence reports of the examinations of wrecked and
abandoned aircraft corroborate the diversity of colour and style.
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Thursday, 4 July 2002, at 6:03 p.m.
On the above
date 16, 26 & 75 FS straffed Pailuchi A/F and subsequently 3-0-1 Lily as
well as 0-0-1 single engined a/c were claimed on the ground. Does anyone know
official name of the base as well as which unit operated from there? Any
comments on a/c and possible losses are also very welcome.
PS For
Richard Dunn, as yet I've got 8 serials for 75's P-40Ms. Unfortunatelly no
breakdown for their period of service.
Re:
Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15
Posted By:
richard dunn <rdunn@rhsmith.umd.edu>
Date:
Friday, 5 July 2002, at 3:00 p.m.
In Response
To: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (Franek Grabowski)
Don't have
information specific to the 15th but a few days earlier 1/85 FR used it as an
advanced fueling base. A twin engine high altitude training plane was used to
transport maintenance personnel. As late as 13 Dec at least part of the 1/85
was operating from there.
Don't think
"Pai Lo Chi" was ever a permanent base. It was a forward operating
base for some offensive operations and defensive patrols over the Yangtze
River.
As for Lilys
on Pai Lo Chi, I think both 16 FR and a chutai 90 FR were operating type 99
light bombers in the area at that time.
I'll let you
know if I find more specifics regarding the 75th and P-40Ms. Glad you found
something as well!
Hope someone
else can answer your question more directly but thought I'd pass this along for
what it's worth.
Re:
Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Friday, 5 July 2002, at 6:46 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (richard dunn)
Well, any
informative answer is always welcome.
What struck
me in the records was the note the A/F had no defence and nobody fired at US
a/c. I've even wondered if it was a decoy site.
As to the
a/c on the A/F. One of SEA was described as an scout bomber with raised
greenhouse, while another remained unidentified. Total of five Lilys also seen
and that's all. I'd say too many for a fighter unit's transports but who knows.
Little help
I'm afraid but certainly adding to the confusion. ;)
Could you
clear Lilys with 16 FR and 90 FR comment? Do I have to understand they were
used as transports or bombers?
Regarding
P-40s, I'd be more interested in Ks & Ns as those were ones flown by
Urbanowicz. Otherwise I've found nothing, just knew whom to ask. ;)
Now I'm
waiting for replies from 75th vets.
Re:
Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Saturday, 6 July 2002, at 12:48 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (Franek Grabowski)
it wasn't a
decoy site but as Rick states a re-fuelling or "staging" field. It
was SOP in CBI for the JAAF to hold air units on rear airfields as permanent or
semi-permanent bases and move them forward through staging fields for specific
operations. This was aided by the deployment of the detached airfield
battalions (Hikojo Daitai) which could service the aircraft staging through the
fields.
The central
China fields can be confused by the use of various Chinese names and the
Japanese translations. Sometimes the nearest town name is used instead of the
specific field or village name. The existence of multiple satellite or
dispersal fields further confuses the modern student.
Molesworth
identifies the field as a "major base" - but I think that refers to
its strategic position rather than the size or occupancy. In the Hunan-Kwangsi
operation from May 1944 the field was used by the 1st Air Brigade, 25th &
48th Sentai (Ki-43).
The field
was also attacked in a series of raids by the 5th Fighter Group, CACW, in July
1944 and was found to be "crowded with Oscars" and transport planes.
Many of the Oscars were noted as being plain silver.
Both 16th
and 90th Sentai used Lilys (Ki-48). Monograph 76 lists the 16th with the Type
99 but notes that they were converting to "Model 2 light bombers" (?)
in Shanghai and Japan in September 1943. It is not clear if this means the
Ki-48 II. Some sources show the 16th as also having the Ki-45 on strength and
it is interesting that aircraft was known as the "Type 2 two-seat
fighter". The possibility of a light bomber version of the Ki-45 has
cropped up before. The obsolence of the Ki-48 was understood and 5th Air Army
orders later specified:
"Type
99 light bombers will assault and destroy enemy planes in night attacks on
enemy airfields . . ."
The SE scout
bomber with raised greenhouse was probably a Ki-51 Sonia of the 44th Sentai or
54th Independent Chutai which were operating in China at the time.
I don't have
a handle on all the transport units present in central China at this time but
one could expect to find Ki-54 and Ki-57 in numbers.
I hope this
little helps or is at least of some interest. I would be very interested in the
P-40M serial numbers.
Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Saturday, 6 July 2002, at 9:28 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (Nick Millman)
Now
everything gets clear! I've to say that Japanese strategy seems very
intelligent, wise and flexible, though I'm curious how actually this worked.
Another
question is how those A/F were cared of? I understand that there must have been
some crew keeping care of ammunition and fuel stocks not to mention basic
infrastructure. Was everything movable?
I also
ununderstand that Ki-51s of 44 Sentai / 54 Chutai weren't attributed to any A/F
and could have been based anywhere on mainland.
JAAF
Logistics
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 7 July 2002, at 1:30 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (Franek Grabowski)
Ok, this
seems to puzzle a lot of people but we must put the idea of the
"modern" air base with permanent occupying units out of our heads
when considering JAAF operations in CBI. The JAAF infrastructure was flexible
and was one of the reasons they were able to maintain operations for so long in
the face of both air superiority and overwhelming odds.
The Airfield
Battalions (Hikojo Daitai) were not part of the air units, which each had their
own repair & maintenance companies as well. They were deployed to look
after airfields and the maintenance elements of them were usually trained to
service a particular type of aircraft. They had four main duties:
1. To
maintain & defend the airfield
2. To manage
materiels - food, fuel, bombs, ammunition and equipment
3. To
accomodate and provision flying personnel based on the airfield
4. To
service and maintain - and partially repair - aircraft stationed at the
airfield
Supplies of
fuel, bombs and ammunition were held on the airfields and replenished from the
Field Air Supply Depots (Yasen Koku Hokyusho) by the Battalion materiels squad (Zairyo
han) aided by the motor transport sections. As detailed below it was
feasible for an AB or part of an AB to be deployed to an airfield without
aircraft!
If an air
unit was using an airfield for any length of time it would very often transfer
in its own ground echelon, by road transport or more usually air, depending on
the operational circumstances. The maintenance elements of the AB would then
assist the flying unit's ground personnel in their servicing routine.
The typical
airfield servicing routine was as follows:
1. 10 and 30
hour inspections
2. Oil
changes - every 25-30 hours
3. Plug
changes - every 60-70 hours
4. Engine
changes - after 250 hours
5.
Instrument adjustments and other minor repairs and replacements
Damaged
aircraft were inspected by a technical officer who decided whether they could
be repaired at the airfield. Aircraft requiring major repair were sent back to
a Field Air Repair Depot (Yasen Koku Shuriso) or one of its sub-depots. Very
occasionally mobile air repair platoons (Koku Ido Shurihan) were sent from the
Depots to effect repairs at the forward airfield.
In reality
the AB's were often under strength and had to improvise. As an example a
company of the 17 Hikojo Daitai deployed to Hmawbi, Burma in 1944 consisted of:
1. The
Chutai Hombu (Company HQ)
2. A Shiki
han (Administration section) under the command of a Warrant Officer with about
30 personnel
3. A Seibi
shotai (Re-fueling and general maintenance section) commanded by a Lieutenant,
with 4 NCO's and about 45 personnel. This section also maintained and repaired
the runways, using local auxiliary labour
4. A Keibi
shotai (Guarding section) also commanded by a Lieutenant with about 30
personnel, responsible for the stocks of fuel and ammunition
5. A Zairyo
han (Materials section) commanded by a Lieutenant, with 2 NCO's and about 7
personnel who looked after the storage and issue of tools. At Hmawbi this
lieutenant also doubled as the MT officer.
At the time
there were no aircraft at Hmawbi and the company broke up and dispersed in the
face of the Allied ground advance, resulting in the capture of some of its
personnel.
Chokkyo
Hikotai
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 7 July 2002, at 1:32 p.m.
In Response
To: Re: Pailuchi A/F 1943.12.15 (Franek Grabowski)
The
independent flying squadrons (Dokuritsu Hiko Chutai) and direct co-operation
units (Chokusetsu or Chokusai Kyodo Hikotai - Chokkyo Hikotai) were frequently
split into small sub-units and deployed widely to support ground operations,
usually flying Ki-51 and Ki-36 aircraft. They were not tied to specific areas
or bases but their movements were subject to the demands of a particular
campaign or operation.
It was not
impossible for various aircraft from other units to be at a particular
airfield, staging through or engaged in various support or administration
flights (this was true of airfields the world over). The Ki-51 in particular
was frequently used for support flights, picking up or delivering aircrew and
essential spares components. It would not be unusual to catch one in the air or
on the ground at an airfield predominantly used by other units. The work of the
various transport units, communications and meteorological flights adds to the
complexity and interest of this situation.
One example
of this type of flight, although not in this theatre, was the loss of Captain
Shimada Saburo, CO of the 73rd Independent Flying Chutai and Captain Oda
Fukumichi, at Elpaputih Bay, Dutch New Guinea on 28th July 1944. Shimada was
returning to Haroekoe from Samate in a Ki-51 after a mission to take spare
parts to repair the aircraft of Sgt Yokogi Saneyoshi, damaged during a search
for the missing Ki-51 of Lt Saruwata Akira. Saruwata had disappeared days
earlier during a convoy escort mission between Manokwari to Sorong. Shimada was
caught by Lightnings of the 475FG and downed after a heroic fight.
In September
the 44th Sentai in China had been co-operating with ground forces at Hankow and
Shanghai whilst the 90th was in Formosa. By January 1944 the 44th was at
Tachengchen and the 90th at Tungshan and Canton. The 16th was at Anyang (aka
Wuchang) and the 54th at Yangchow. These moves represent the nuclei of these
units - elements from them were probably operating widely on detachment - on a day
by day basis.
Re:
Chokkyo Hikotai
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Thursday, 11 July 2002, at 4:09 p.m.
In Response
To: Chokkyo Hikotai (Nick Millman)
Thanks for
your extensive and exhaustive replies! It took me some time to get through them
and of course few questions appeared.
Was the 44
Sentai an army cooperation unit and was it dispersed along the front? Same
regarding 90 Sentai and also was the latter unit present in China in December
1943?
Re:
Chokkyo Hikotai
Posted By:
Nick Millman
Date:
Sunday, 14 July 2002, at 5:50 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Chokkyo Hikotai (Franek Grabowski)
according to
my sources the 44th Sentai was composed of 3 Chokkyo Hikotai flying Ki-36 Ida
and Ki-51 Sonia aircraft. The tail marking was a small red hinomaru with the
Hikotai distinguished by the corresponding number of white straight or curved
stripes beneath it.
Some sources
assert that the Ki-36 was not used after 1941 but I believe that is most
unlikely and suggest that the Ki-36 and Ki-51 were in fact used throughout the
war. The likelihood is that the Chutai and even Shotai would be detached to
operate widely on ground support and co-operation sorties.
The 90th
Sentai was a light bomber unit equipped with the Kawasaki Ki-48, Army Type 99,
light bomber "Lily". The tail marking was a circle containing a
stylised "9" - this marking being painted in the Chutai colour,
white, red or yellow for 1st, 2nd and 3rd - with coloured stripes representing the
different Shotai.
In August
1942 the 90th was engaged in night training in Peiping and Licheng (see my
earlier posts). In 1943 it was split up - the main force forming the "Seto
Unit" with one Chutai of the 33rd (Fighter) Sentai and a Chokkyo Hikotai
to support the 23rd Army from Hai Kow Shi in the Luichow peninsula. From here
it raided Kweilin and other locations in South-West China. The remaining
element of the 90th stayed with the 1st Air Brigade at Hankow, together with
the 23rd and 25th Sentai and elements of the 16th Sentai.
By September
1943 the 90th Sentai was reported to be at Kagi in Formosa, probably
re-fitting, but as part of the 1st Air Brigade it was also likely to be sending
detachments to airfields around Canton.
By January
1944 the 90th Sentai was reported to be using bases at Tungshan (Hankow) and
Canton, engaged in predominantly night raiding of enemy airfields.
Re:
Chokkyo Hikotai
Posted By:
Franek Grabowski <frantag@friko4.onet.pl>
Date:
Monday, 22 July 2002, at 8:01 a.m.
In Response
To: Re: Chokkyo Hikotai (Nick Millman)
Just only
one question, hopefully last one in this thread.
You refer to
bases Anyang and Tungshan. Are they names of bases in respectively Wuchang and
Hankow and usually refferred to the latter names or were they separate bases in
the neighbourhood?
-
-