Ki-43 Specifications

 

Posted By: Mark Haselden <mark_rae@msn.com>

Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:51 p.m.

 

Does anyone out there have a reliable figure for the wing loading of the Ki-43s used in Malaya and Burma 1941-42? I'd be grateful for any leads. Thanks in advance.

Re: Ki-43 Specifications

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com>

Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 1:20 p.m.

In Response To: Ki-43 Specifications (Mark Haselden)

 

All Ki43s in 1941 and 42 are Ki43-Is. They have a wing area of 22 sq meters. The 217th production machine (which is a I Hei with two 12.7mm MGs) weighed in at 1617.5kg dry, 2081kg loaded, and 2632kg fully laden with drop tanks.

Re: Ki-43 Specifications

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi <hiryu@bigfoot.com>

Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 4:10 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-43 Specifications (Hiroyuki Takeuchi)

 

The one I listed as the weight of the Ki43-I Hei was listed in Minoru Akimoto's "Nippon Gunyoki Kokusen Zenshi" as an IJN figure.

I was sleepy-eyed enough to miss some other figures listed in the same source so here goes. Ki43-I Otsu (1X7.7mm 1X12.7mm) Empty 1580kg Loaded 2043kg (Source Nakajima) Ki43-I Otsu Standard Load 2042kg Full Load 2238kg w/Drop Tanks 2578 (In an IJA Technical Research Institutue report on Sept 6th 1941) Ki43-I Ko Standard Load 2048kg Full Load 2243kg w/Drop Tanks 2583 (Another IJA source)

A new book on the Oscar: Pod Lupa No. 11

Posted By: Charles Metz <c-metz@uchicago.edu>

Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 2:57 p.m.

 

Dr. Przemyslaw Skulski kindly sent me a copy of his next volume in the Pod Lupa series, on the Ki-43 "Oscar":

Skulski: 'Nakajima Ki 43 Hayabusa "Oscar"' (Pod Lupa series, No. 11; Ace Publication [Poland], 1999; in Polish; 48 pages; US$18) -- AIRCRAFT TYPES INCLUDED: Ki-43; COCKPIT DETAIL: Ki-43-I (p. 23, 45), Ki-43-II (p. 12, 23, 45), Ki-43-III (p. 23, 45); WHEELWELL DETAIL: Ki-43-II (p. 25, 44); MISCELLANEOUS DETAIL: Ki-43-I canopy (p. 44), cowl (p. 44), engine [Ha-25] (p. 46); Ki-43-II canopy (p. 44), cowl (p. 24, 44), engine [Ha-115] (p. 24, 47), rear part of engine bay (p. 31), elevator (p. 47), landing gear (p. 25, 44, 47), landing light (p. 25); Ki-43-III canopy (p. 44), rear part of engine bay (p. 11); CUTAWAY DRAWINGS: Ki-43-I (p. 21); MULTI-VIEW DRAWINGS: Ki-43-I (p. 7, 37-39), Ki-43-II (p. 8, 40, 41), Ki-43-II (p. 9, 42, 43); GENERIC MARKING PATTERNS: Ki-43 [all] (p. 15, 17), Ki-43-I (p. 19), Ki-43-II (p. 20), Ki-43-III (p. 21); SPECIFIC MARKING PROFILES: Ki-43-I (inside front cover, p. 26, 33), Ki-43-II (p. 26, 34-36, inside back cover, back cover), Ki-43-III (p. 34, 36, back cover)

The book follows the format of other recent volumes in this series, offering a nice mix of text, both wartime photos and modern photos of surviving aircraft, detail drawings, and multi-view drawings. Overall, I'd rate this volume on a par with 'Nakajima Ki 43 Hayabusa "Oscar",' by Pajdosz, Wlodarczyk and Jarski (Monografie Lotnicze series, No. 48; AJ Press [Poland], 1998; in Polish; 84 pages; US$16.50), which I considered the best single reference until now. However, the two books' coverage involves surprisingly little overlap, so I recommend both to anyone with a serious interest in Oscars.

This new volume isn't available in the USA yet, as far as I know, but it can be purchased directly from the publisher:

ACE Publication

ul. Powstancow Sl. 50

53-350 Wroclaw 15

POLAND

e-mail: pskulski@credit.ae.wroc.pl

for US$15, including postage. The publisher accepts payment only in the form of an International Post Money Order. However, I expect that the book will become available soon from the usual retail sources for ACE Publication releases -- e.g., Aeroplane Books, in Williamsburg, Virginia (http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/).

Color photos from the book

Posted By: Dave Pluth <info@j-aircraft.com>

Date: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 5:27 p.m.

In Response To: A new book on the Oscar: Pod Lupa No. 11 (Charles Metz)

 

The color photos from the book are actually from here (check the walkaround) and there is even a plug for J-aircraft in there. It's a nice volume and worth the price for the Oscar fan!

Nango's Ki.43II - red or blue fuselage [command?] stripes?

Posted By: gene cloud <nimbus109@earthlink.net>

Date: Friday, 24 March 2000, at 8:42 a.m.

The AJ Press book has them as blue. AeroMaster has them as red. The Fine Molds Ki.43 decal sheet presents them as red. Osprey Aces series on JAAF aces presents them as red. Seems that opinion points toward red. BTW, guess no one has any expert information on markings of Ki.84 aces.

1/48 Fine Molds Ki-43II... an inbox review

Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>

Date: Thursday, 16 March 2000, at 3:43 p.m.

 

Received above kit today from HLJ, 3220 yen included shipping. I'll give a quick rundown of the contents for those who have not seen this kit, and are thinking of buying it.... Kit consists of 57 grey and clear parts, comes in a box with very attractive artwork showing an Oscar from the 64th Sentai. Parts are well molded, a bit of flash but no big deal there. Directions are 10 pages, booklet form. Of these, 5 pages are dedicated to colors and markings included with the kit. Also included (all in Japanese text) are a Fine Molds catalog, plus text on certain pilots and drawings of the engine, guns and shells fired by said guns. Decals.....wow! Very nicely printed, options include:

1. Overall dark green uppers over NMF from the 50th Sentai (Capt. Miyamaru)

2. Brown and dark green over NMF from the 50th Sentai (Capt. Miyamaru)

3. NMF/green splotches from the 50th Sentai (Sgt. Anabuki)

4. NMF/green splotches from Akeno Flight School

5. Dark green over NMF from the 64th Sentai

6. NMF/green squiqqles from the 64th Sentai (Lt. Hinoki)

7. Dark green over NMF from the 59th Sentai (Capt. Nango)

8. Mostly NMF, small green splotches from the 59th Sentai (Sgt. Hirohata)

Very impressive overall- but to be honest I'd of been very upset to have paid the original $80+ US price from a few years ago due to the small amount of plastic in this kit. Highly recomended- hopefully we will see more of the Oscar family re-released by Fine Molds this year. Hope this was helpful,

One more thing.... oil coolers

Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>

Date: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 3:38 p.m.

In Response To: 1/48 Fine Molds Ki-43II... an inbox review (Dan Salamone)

 

While taking a closer look last night, the kit includes both early, and late oil cooler fairings (early a simple "scoop" shape, later more of a barrell shape cylinder under and behind the cowl). This really opens up markings possibilities, even more than the decals given in the kit......

Re: 1/48 Fine Molds Ki-43II... an inbox review

Posted By: gene cloud <nimbus109@earthlink.net>

Date: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 7:11 a.m.

In Response To: 1/48 Fine Molds Ki-43II... an inbox review (Dan Salamone)

 

I agree..what a nice kit at a reasonable price! But I have a question. What is that thingamabob to the left of the ilustration showing placement of the drop tanks [radio, microwave oven?]? And where does it go? Thanks

 

Nichimo Ki-43

Posted By: Nick k <Nick.Kiriokos@mail.dfrc.nasa.gov>

Date: Thursday, 9 March 2000, at 4:23 p.m.

Getting this kit in a trade from a friend. Opinions? Fit, etc?

Re: Nichimo Ki-43

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi

Date: Thursday, 9 March 2000, at 9:28 p.m.

 

Very nice kit. One assembly problem I had is that the oil coolder ring part is too long and sticks out of the cowling. I fixed mine by shortening the engine mount part and moving the entire engine ass'y backward by a few millimeters. Also, the reason most of the cockpit interior is so hard to see (beside the fact that the plane has such a tight cokpit to start with) is because the cockpit floor part is too low, which also results in a control column that is too long.

I love the kit, though.

Re: Nichimo Ki-43

Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmer@ix.netcom.com>

Date: Saturday, 11 March 2000, at 10:34 a.m.

In Response To: Nichimo Ki-43 (Nick k)

 

A great kit - but one noticable defect is the relative vertical position of the gun bulges on the fuselage and the general proportions of the forward fuselage - you'll see what I mean when you try to mask the anti-glare and compare with photographs. Mark W.'s comments are quite to the point. You'll also need to buff off the pebbly finish from the unpolished molds - 3M Softback Sanding Sponges to the rescue !

Re: Nichimo Ki-43

Posted By: Hiroyuki Takeuchi

Date: Monday, 13 March 2000, at 12:26 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Nichimo Ki-43 (Pete Chalmers)

 

Yes I noticed that problem. My "fix", instead of trying to rebuild the front fuselage, was to make the lower frame of the windshield (where the windshield meets the fuselage) from very thin plastic sheet and add it to the lower end of the windshield which makes the windshield appear to be "deeper". This will enable you to start the anti-glare from a lower point on the fuselage and the positioning fo the antiglare will seem more convincing.

cockpit photos of Ki.43 II

Posted By: Walther Irie <wirie@execulink.com>

Date: Sunday, 20 February 2000, at 10:21 a.m.

 

Does anyone know were to find reference material on the Nakajima Ki.43 II cockpit? Is there much diference from Ki.43 I?

Re: cockpit photos of Ki.43 II

Posted By: Ken Glass <ken.glass@eudoramail.com>

Date: Sunday, 20 February 2000, at 12:57 p.m.

In Response To: cockpit photos of Ki.43 II (Walther Irie)

 

If you can find it, see page 29 of Monogram Close-Up 14 Japanese Cockpit Interiors Part 1, by Mikesh for a b/w photo of the instrument panel. Issue 4 of Japanese Information Clearinghouse Pacific Front, page 10 has a sketch of the instrument panel with dimensions and identifications of what went in each cutout. There are several more b/w photos of this or that interior detail. None of the photos are of a complete machine and much has to be pieced together in your head. But the information is about as complete as you can ask for an Oscar I or II. Many sketches are included from the original maintenance manual for the planes. Per Mikish, the cockpit of the model II was completely redesigned. David Aiken may still have some copies left of Pacific Front #4. He offered some for sale recently on this site. He can be reached at david_aiken@hotmail.com . You will likely have to search e-bay for the Monogram close-Up #14.

Re: JIC issue 4 still available!

Posted By: David_Aiken <David_Aiken@hotmail.com>

Date: Monday, 21 February 2000, at 6:11 a.m.

In Response To: Re: cockpit photos of Ki.43 II (Ken Glass)

 

Yes, there are still a few issues of the old Japanese Info Clearinghouse final issue #4 available! They have been going for $8 plus $2 Shipping in the USA or $8 plus shipping overseas.

As Ken reminded us, that issue has just over 40 Ki-43 photos, the illustrations from the Ki-43I maintenance manual and what little there was in the Ki-43III manual, a technical intelligence report on a Ki-43II with the detail interior photos and original descriptions of items in the photos pointed out, an interrogation of with IJA ace Iori Sakai, a roster of 302 Kokutai aircraft tail codes, a unique capture of a Ki-43II on Okinawa, samples of Ki-43IIs captured at Hollandia, New Guinea, and interior details of the Oshkosh Ki-43II.

Since produced in 1986, there is little that is close to this coverage on the Ki-43 interior. Thanx, Ken, for remembering.

Fine Molds Ki-43 kit for 2400 yen

Posted By: Dan Salamone <dano@rust.net>

Date: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 10:13 p.m.

 

Just saw that one of the Fine Molds Ki-43 kits will be released next month in Japan at 2400 yen....link takes you there.

http://www.hlj.com/cgi-local/hljpage.cgi?FNMFB-02

Re: Fine Molds Ki-43 kit for 2400 yen

Posted By: Rob Graham <rgraham111@aol.com>

Date: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 10:25 p.m.

In Response To: Fine Molds Ki-43 kit for 2400 yen (Dan Salamone)

 

I recall Mark Wlodarczyk saying the Fine Molds Oscar is the best, hands down, IIRC in any scale. This is a WAY lower price than was originally asked, which retailed at $85 or so. I opted for the Otaki and Nichimo offerings, but think the Nichimo will be the only one I'll finish of those 2, thanks to the good news. Do I recall you built one of these babies? I'd bet a resin interior would be a good thing (my A5M1 from FM was, uh, Spartan...), though I've never seen one in the flesh.

Ki-43-I oil radiator color

Posted By: Karoly Kele <kele@okk.szamalk.hu>

Date: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 8:20 a.m.

 

My latest acquisition is a Nakajima Ki-43-I Hayabusa from Nichimo. The instructions are in japanese only but they provided a type-writed sheet in english for assembling and painting. The "painting memo" for oil radiator is:

"Paint the overall surface of Oil radiator in black-iron color, and paint the front protrusions of the same in gold, while the wider protrusions in silver."

The silver is OK, but what they try to suggest with "gold"? They mean brass parts? Have you any clue?

Re: Ki-43-I oil radiator color

Posted By: Rob Graham <rgraham111@aol.com>

Date: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 11:07 a.m.

In Response To: Ki-43-I oil radiator color (Karoly Kele)

 

I'm almost positive it would be brass, as radiators were often brass. I'd dry-brush it with Gunze's (or a similar) metal paint

All the color schemes of the Nichimo Oscar

Posted By: Jeff McGuire <jmcguire@cyberlodge.com>

Date: Friday, 7 January 2000, at 4:00 p.m.

 

My questions is for anyone who knows anything about all the color schemes that the all-Japanese instructions call for on the Nichimo Oscar. Can anyone help me? There are a bunch of colored arrows for the tail, stripes for the wings, etc. Is the overall paint scheme for all the arrowed tails the same? I would greatly appreciate any help. With all the options, this would be a nice kit of which to do a bunch.

Re: All the color schemes of the Nichimo Oscar

Posted By: Mitch Inkster

Date: Friday, 7 January 2000, at 6:27 p.m.

In Response To: All the color schemes of the Nichimo Oscar (Jeff McGuire)

 

I have just recently completed the Nichimo Oscar, I guess you received the same issue of the kit that I did, the one with out translation. I resorted to using the Aeromaster decals of Tateo Kato. There is no proof that I am aware of for the "brown" Oscar in Indochina, I cannot give you the colors of the Thai Oscar, although I believe it is several shades of green with a lighter green stripping.I could be wrong. Check out my review and photos of my Oscar in the review section at www.squadron.com. I believe the arrow markings are for the famous 64th Sentai.

Identity of HAyabusa Ki-43 unit at Meiktila,Burma-1943/4

Posted By: Carlos Herrera <KAKI1@prodigy.net>

Date: Thursday, 30 December 1999, at 3:53 p.m.

 

I'm trying to find out some information about a JAAF Hayabusa unit that was based at Meiktila,Burma during 1943-1944. The story behind this unit is as follows. In an aerial battle a Ki43 pilot was taken prisoner by the OSS

and interrogated in 1944. He refused to say anything, but a photograph was found on his person that showed him standing next to his aircraft with his girlfriend.

An OSS technician enlarged the photo and discovered that the Japanese had dug holes in the ground to bury their planes and then covered them with sod..

Intelligence then examined aerial photos of the airbase and discovered

thirty suspicious shadows around the perimeter of the airfield. These were subsequently bombed in the next few days, reducing the available fighter force to the Japanese.

If anyone can provide additional information, I'd welcome it.

Hayabusa Ki-43 Units at Meiktila, Burma: 1943-44

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Friday, 31 December 1999, at 7:31 a.m.

In Response To: Identity of HAyabusa Ki-43 unit at Meiktila,Burma-1943/4 (Carlos Herrera)

 

There were at least five Ki-43 units on bases in the Meiktila, Burma area during late 1943 and Spring 1944. They were the 33, 50, 64, 77, and 204 Hiko Sentai (FR). Of the three remaining (33 and 77 FR was transferred to New Guinea), the most likely candidates for the airman in your story is a pilot from either the 50 FR or 64 FR. I recall that after WINGATE's aerial invasion of Burma in March 1944, the Chindits captured a pilot shot down over Broadway Strip inside Japanese occupied Burma. My recollection is also that he was from the 64 FR. I will look through my First Air Commando Group notes for more information. All the Japanese losses for this time period (March 1944) are contained in IZAWA/HATA's "Japanese Army Fighter Units" history on page 372. Japanese Battle Order lists the following Ki-43 units;

October/November, 1943:

33 FR in central Burma

50 FR at Mingaladon and Tavoy

64 FR detachments in central and southern Burma

27 November/December 1943:

33 FR Namsang/Maymo

50 FR Meiktila/Heho

64 FR Rangoon/Toungoo

77 FR Meiktila (?)

204 FR Magwe/Akyab

January 1944:

33 FR Namsaqng/Maymo/Anisakan/Aungban (trans. to New Guinea)

50 FR Heho/Meiktila/Aungban

64 FR Rangoon/Toungoo

77 FR Anisakan (trans. to New Guinea)

204 FR Rangoon

February/May 1944 (Note: The following units moved about all bases listed above during this period and precise dates at stations are not available):

50 FR Heho/Anisakan

64 FR Rangoon/Toungoo

204 FR Rangoon

I hope this helps.

Re: Hayabusa Ki-43 Units at Meiktila, Burma: 1943-44

Posted By: Matt Poole <Feb2944@aol.com>

Date: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:40 p.m.

In Response To: Hayabusa Ki-43 Units at Meiktila, Burma: 1943-44 (James F. Lansdale)

 

I stumbled upon some interesting documents while researching JAAF/RAF things at the Public Records Office (PRO) in Kew, London. As I scrambled, in my limited time, for documents relevant to my specific project I occasionally jotted down notes on other items of interest I'd come upon. You may be interested in some of these, though there is no way of knowing if they are related to your Meiktila-related story. I only jotted down a scant few notes. The records are a treasure trove, if one has the time and money and patience...

An example of things I quickly noted:

PRO File AIR 24/1296 is a bound volume of South East Asia Command (SEAC) intelligence documents published in March 1944. Within this volume I noted that there is "a fantastic Oscar crash report, 8 Feb '44, including drawings with detailed markings. This, I know, is a 64th Sentai A/C."

Within the same volume, I noted that there are other Japanese crash reports, as well. Later, in the same volume, I found "HQ SEAC Weekly Intelligence Summary #19." This report contains "an analysis of documents found at a Japanese crash site. 64th & 204th Sentais mentioned, as is Miyabe, ace with the 64th. Also found in Weekly Summary #19: a detailed "Captured Enemy Documents" report pertaining to the above-mentioned 8 Feb. '44 Oscar crash.

Several SEAC interrogation reports on captured Japanese in Burma appear in the bound volume AIR 24/1302, published in Aug. '44.

AIR 24/1303, Sep. '44, has various translation reports mentioning specific sentai in Burma, as well as some reports on interrogated prisoners. In the same volume is found "HQ SEAC Weekly Intelligence Summary #43 (10 Sept. '44), Part V of which contains excerpts from the "July '44 interrogation with Oscar Mk. II fighter pilot - prisoner of war."

AIR 24/1305 (Oct. '44, Vol. 2) contains a report on "Captured Myitina documents." and "captured Sally documents."

AIR 24/1310 (Jan '45) contains a "report on different Oscars & other A/C found on Akyab [Burma], with drawings of tail markings and colors given."

Finally, in AIR 24/1312 (Mar '45) there is "a report on the examination of aircraft at Meiktila. Lots of Oscars, with serial numbers."

I should add that many of the reports in the SEAC summaries were months old by the time the info was published. Others were "hot off the presses."

London is a long way away for most of us, but the PRO has some great stuff to be discovered. Sorry I can only provide vague information. Some of the other AIR 24 SEAC volumes would certainly contain similar info to what few thing I've taken note of. Who knows...Carlos, your Meiktila story might be in one of these volumes. Something to think about when you try to get to sleep tonight, eh?

Hayabusa color matches

Posted By: Rob Graham <rgraham111@aol.com>

Date: Thursday, 1 July 1999, at 1:12 p.m.

 

Hey, all:

I scored an interesting Hayabusa relic today. This is my first aircraft relic, so please bear with me and my excitement. The relic is a piece of skin that's .5mm thick and is about 8" x 8" squarish. It's torn and jagged on 3 sides, and slightly curved on another side. It is curled roughly in the middle, probably due to damage. There are some rivet holes which are 3mm in diameter. It is NMF on the outside of the curl and painted on the inside. The metal has an inscription that says CH. This inscription was machine applied in lines on the skin, the whole inscription saying SDCH, and has one line above the letters and two lines below and was in a staggered pattern. The letters on the inscription are about 10mm tall and 8mm wide, each. The entire inscription was about 55mm long with a repeat every 75 or so mm. Sorry, but I didn't get to measure that. The inscription appears almost as if it was scratched, but it looks (up close) more like it was printed and the aluminum was protected there, though any pigmentation has since disappeared. I presume it stands for Super Duralumin something. Any other ideas? The inside of the curl appears to be coated with a blue, possibly Aotake; a khaki Ameiro; and a green camouflage paint. I have ordered an FS 595 fan deck, but haven't received it yet, so bear with me as I use Behr paint samples for color comparison. Because the skin was quite dirty, I washed it in the kitchen sink with mild detergent and warm water. No, my wife wasn't home, so please don't ask her about what I do in the kitchen while she's away. Aotake (or is it?)- When I washed the part, SOME of the green paint loosened and washed away revealing what I presume to be a very blue Aotake underneath. I think it MIGHT be what's left of the green after the oxidized part of the paint comes free, but I can't be sure aside from the fact the blue isn't as translucent as the green Aotake I saw in other areas of the airframe. The color is a match with Behr 2B41-6.

Ameiro - The Ameiro is a VERY thin layer of paint, so it's hard to match. I can match it somewhat closely some where between Behr 2A7-4 and 2B6-2.

Green - The camo green was applied with a spray gun and looks like some of it may have been painted before the ameiro, but other portions of the airframe were painted green on top of ameiro. The oxidized green is a match with Behr 2B60-6, while the cleaned paint is a match with Behr 2B58-6.

The yellow IFF stripes on the wings were a near match for Behr 1B8-6, but 1B7-6 seemed more likely for newer paint. I noticed the demarcation of the IFFs was not perfect, and it had a couple of layers that were peeling off. There were some runs and drips to it and it looked almost as if it was applied with a brush and little or no masking, but that could have been from maintenance painting.

That's about all. The Hinomarus were too faded to bother, but remnants exitsted that showed it was not a red-brown, but rather a red. I'd compare it to a commercial red such as Coca-Cola or Texaco uses.

I'll try to do an FS comparison for those who need that when I get my fan deck. Thanks for your patience!

Re: KI-43 interior/wheelbay colours

Posted By: Tennessee Katsuta <kinson-garments@on.aibn.com>

Date: Friday, 19 March 1999, at 1:00 p.m.

 

According to Model Art No.395"Camouflage & Markings of Hayabusa",the cockpit interior ,inside the landing gear cover, and landing gear well interior were painted in aotake. The istrument panel was flat black.

Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Monday, 21 August 2000, at 2:34 p.m.

 

A relic sample, allegedly souvenired at Clark Field in February 1944, has been analyzed. The data plate and skin fragment is from a Nakajima Ki-44 Tojo s/n 2171. The brown paint on the un-primered aluminum surface was applied very thinly and the underlying aluminum makes the brown appear somewhat lighter than it might have been if layered more thickly.

There is no exact color match on the FS 595B color fan, but it is slightly darker than FS-20122. The Munsell match is 7.5 YR 4/2. There is increasing evidence that the Nakajima and Kawasaki aircraft companies factory applied a solid brown camouflage on many of their production fighter aircraft (Ki-44 and Ki-45) during mid to late 1944. Mitsubishi appears to have used this scheme on the Ki-67 bomber as well.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 7:14 p.m.

In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

Jim:

I looked on my 595B fan ( July 1994 ) - no 20122 ! But it IS on my 595A fan, blade 24 ( 1984 ). Slightly darker and less red than 20117, which is on both. The Clark pic looks fairly true to those colors, FWIW.

You can just see the grey painted serial btw. the stab. and the Hinomaru on the Ki-44, which is consistent with the serial painting on Ki-84 and Ki-44 pics I've seen in the Ki-44 and Ki-84 FAOW's and other references - some comfort to me in using the color on either aircraft ( and it does look good on the late Ki-43's. )

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Wednesday, 23 August 2000, at 5:45 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Pete Chalmers)

 

Hi Pete

You are correct! The color sample, FS-20122) appears in the FS-595B color fan printed in 1989 (blade no.21) but not in the one printed July 1994. I would suggest another close match, FS-20140, from the July 1994 edition and is found on blade no.22. However, the relic I examined appeared a bit darker.

The problem with color photography, which is second best to having the sample of color in front of you, are the variations caused by:

1) Technical issues at the time of photography (lighting conditions, camera settings, film type and film speed

2) Film processing and subsequent printing issues (I get different quality of prints everytime I send my color negs out).

3) Printing/electronic technical issues when the print is reproduced in publications or through the electronic media.

The photograph you are looking at is from an original Kodachrome slide; from which an internegative was made; subsequently printed in a Japanese magazine; electronically scanned; and, finally, received by over 100,000 monitors (and maybe printed again by 57 varieties of printers)!!!

Color photography is great for answering certain questions (e.g. were the code numerals on the tail yellow or red?), but not as good as having a sample of the real thing.

I truly appreciate your posting the image from Mark's site (I had forgotten about it!) because it does show tangible evidence that the IJAAF used this color on these aircraft.

P.S. Did you notice that the third aircraft is a Ki-45 in hairyokushoku finish (albeit very washed out in the color processing) with a darker olive-green field-applied mottling (as is the fifth aircraft, a Ki-48 Lily from the 208 FR); and that the fourth aircraft illustrates the red color of No.2 hiko chutai of 27 FR on a brown finish very nicely. Also note that someone already has put some rounds into the hinomaru of the Ki-45. Its serial number (4132 on the original slide) may be seen in black above and to the right of the open access panel.

Overall, this is a superb photo and thank you again for posting it.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!

Posted By: Graham Boak <graham@boak98.freeserve.co.uk>

Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 2:21 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

Sorry, but, bearing in mind all that James says about the problems of photo-reproduction, I cannot see how this photo shows a brown.

Look at the way the colours of the foliage have gone from green to brown, look at the flesh tones,.....surely these aircraft are in olive green with a "brown" effect due to age/reproduction/whatever.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!

Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>

Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 10:18 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not! (Graham Boak)

 

The scanned copy has drifted from the Kokufan repro. which has drifted from the original Kodachrome, and there is a lot of color corruption around the borders, BUT:

The USN officer is wearing typical wash khakis with a USMC cap and a "pisscutter" USN cap emblem, and has a pretty good tan - skin, cap, and uniform tones are close enough and believable.

Picture taken in the summer of '45 - it can be pretty scorching in the P.I. in the summer, especially inland on Luzon.

( As a Naval officer, I spent a lot of time in the P.I. in 1967-68 at both Clark and Cubi Point - the grass and foliage colors on the tree tops are not too far off. )

Also, the green camo. and red and yellow look pretty sharp and serve as another test of the brown shade.

Coupled with Jim's relic info., I'm comfortable with the brown.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not!

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Thursday, 24 August 2000, at 4:52 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown - surely not! (Graham Boak)

 

Hi Graham

What you say is very true, but also note that the third aircraft has a green mottling painted on it. While I cannot explain the grass color (maybe it is dead!!!) the trees appear dark green.

This particular print did pick up some of the greens. True, the foreground is very distorted in color on the original slide due, I think, to being light struck or age. Note the cloudy blue tint. None of these colors are right on, but I do believe that the first two aircraft and fourth aircraft are a shade of brown; that the third has a light color over-painted with a mottling of an olive-green shade; that the reds are red; and the yellows are yellow. FWIW!

Additional problems, highlighted by these color discussions, include metamerism and semantics. For example, there are shades of U.S.so-called "olive drab" which have a brown tone and shades which have a definite green tone depending on variations in paint formula, weathering, lighting conditions, and individual perceptions!

More important to me than this photo are the six to ten samples I have analyzed of actual pieces from various Japanese aircraft captured in the Philippines during this time period. Some of the relics from Ki-44s, Ki-45s and a Ki-67 appear to me to be what I call "brown."

Thank you for your feedback.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: Greg Springer <gspring@ix.netcom.com>

Date: Wednesday, 23 August 2000, at 7:01 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

Hi Gents,

When I purchased my 595B fan deck about 2 years ago they included a 2 X 3 inch chip of 20122 along with it.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown *PIC*

Posted By: Pete Chalmers <pchalmers@carolina.rr.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 12:39 p.m.

In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

. . . and for those of you who haven't seen it:

http://www.marksindex.com/aviation/temp/tojo_1.jpg

Pete Chalmers

N.B. The Kawasaki Ki-45 in the foreground is s/n 4132 and the second aircraft is Nakajima Ki-44 s/n 2186, both captured at Clark Field P.I. Note the hinomaru have been overpainted blue to prevent damage from "friendly fire," and in anticipation of repair and evaluation by T.A.I.U.

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: Mitch Inkster <mang521092@aol.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 1:16 a.m.

In Response To: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

Jim,

Any definitive proof for the brown Oscar Is?

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 5:31 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Mitch Inkster)

 

Mitch

The only un-weathered relics I have analyzed from the Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar (5-6 different ones from CBI and New Guinea) have been various shades of dark green or dark olive-green (none I would call a "brown"). The overall brown color has been primarily documented as a factory color application on aircraft used in the Philippines during late 1944 to February 1945. It was also found on one sample of a Kawasaki Ki-100 recovered in Japan after the war. OWAKI-san may have more material on this subject.

Tachikawa may have built its Ki-43s with this color, but I have no samples from Tachikawa production.

Rob GRAHAM has a sample of a very weathered Oscar skin from Oscar carcasses recovered in the '90s by the Russians in the Kuriles. From what I recall, it too had some green and evidence of gray-green (hairyokushoku).

IHTH

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown

Posted By: Mike Yeo <spyder355@hotmail.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 5:44 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (James F. Lansdale)

 

Jim,

could there be a chance this the same brown used on the 47th Dokuritsu Chutais Ki-44 pre-production aircraft used in Malaya in early 42?

Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown/47 Fc

Posted By: James F. Lansdale <LRAJIM@aol.com>

Date: Tuesday, 22 August 2000, at 6:34 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Ki-44/Nakajima Brown (Mike Yeo)

 

Mike

Unfortunately all we have to go on are the artists' speculations as to the field-applied hue of the early prototype and preproduction Ki-44s flown by the No. 47 dokuristsu hiko chutai (Fc) based in French Indochina. Two or three of these aircraft were from the first three or four prototypes (s/n 4401-4404). It is higly probable that they were painted gray-green overall (hairyokushoku) at the factory. This probability is based on established factory practice. ("Nakajima Ki-44 Shoki In JAAF Service," BUESCHEL, Schiffer:1996, p.p.3-4 & 6-8 photo captions based on research by James I. LONG)

The remainder of the pre-production prototypes were natural metal (s/n 4404-4410). The many publicity photographs taken of the 47 Fc in Indochina/Malaya indicate that a coat of field-applied camouflage (one or two colors?) was applied on the upper surfaces. It would be pure speculation as to the hue, but NOHARA-san believes it was the standard IJA equipment (helmets, trucks, etc) olive-brown. But, quien sabe?

IHTH